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    Green screen

    How To... ?
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    • klauskk
      klauskk last edited by

      Hello everybody.

      I had a phone call where a theatre production wants to play with green screen and live camera on stage.
      Does anyone have any experience with keying out the green screen with a live camera on stage and then composite different background with isadora?
      Klaus K.
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      • Skulpture
        Skulpture Izzy Guru last edited by

        Chroma Key actor :) (or maybe luminance) -  easy peasy :)

        Graham Thorne | www.grahamthorne.co.uk
        RIG 1: Custom-built PC: Windows 11. Ryzen 7 7700X, RTX3080, 32G DDR5 RAM. 2 x m.2.
        RIG 2: Laptop Dell G15: Windows 11, Intel i9 12th Gen. RTX3070ti, 16G RAM (DDR5), 2 x NVME M.2 SSD.
        RIG 3: Apple Laptop: rMBP i7, 8gig RAM 256 SSD, HD, OS X 10.12.12

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        • klauskk
          klauskk last edited by

          But with good result? I know the actors, but I want to know if anyone have any experience with the same settings.

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          • jhoepffner
            jhoepffner last edited by

            Hello,

            I have made some experience with students during workshop, here are my conclusions:
            — like every green screen, quality of light and camera are priority, separate lighting for background, key light, backlight, preferably 4.2.2 camera with real video in, like blackmagic.
            — Isadora chromakey works but is far away from real key software and hardware
            — there is a time delay, so no lipsync
            — it's really computer consuming, so dont hope to play and mix many other clips in realtime.
            But nothing better than your proper test with your hardware and hopes…
            All the best,
            Jacques Hoepffner

            Jacques Hoepffner http://hoepffner.info
            GigaByte 550b / Ryzen 7 3800X / Ram 64 Go / RTX 3090 24 Go / SSD 2 To / raid0 32 To
            MBP 13' i5 2.6 Ghz 16 Go / Intel Iris / macOs 10.11.6 / izzy 2.6.1 + 3.0.3b2
            MBP 15' i7 2.6 Ghz 16 Go / GTX 650M 1Go/ MacOs10.13.3 / Izzy 2.6.1
            MSI GS65 i7 3.6 Ghz 32 Go / GTX 1070 8 Go / Windows 10 / Izzy 3.0.3b2

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            • Skulpture
              Skulpture Izzy Guru last edited by

              Great lighting and a perfectly straight and constant green material is needed too. But as Jacques said above it is time consuming.

              Graham Thorne | www.grahamthorne.co.uk
              RIG 1: Custom-built PC: Windows 11. Ryzen 7 7700X, RTX3080, 32G DDR5 RAM. 2 x m.2.
              RIG 2: Laptop Dell G15: Windows 11, Intel i9 12th Gen. RTX3070ti, 16G RAM (DDR5), 2 x NVME M.2 SSD.
              RIG 3: Apple Laptop: rMBP i7, 8gig RAM 256 SSD, HD, OS X 10.12.12

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              • klauskk
                klauskk last edited by

                Thanks a lot.

                Great summary of your workshop Jacques.
                Klaus K.
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                • primaldivine
                  primaldivine last edited by

                  MIght be worth looking at this new FFGL plugin, if you are using Isadora 2.0 beta.
                  http://troikatronix.com/troikatronixforum/discussion/1592/chroma-key-with-ffgl-in-2-0#Item_1

                  I havent tested it yet myself, so if anyone has reports, please post them here :)

                  Pro-User Latest Beta - MacBook Pro i7 2.66GHz SSD
                  www.jamiegriffiths.com Arctic Canada
                  www.chickweedarts.com

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                  • laurentR
                    laurentR last edited by

                    Sorry I'm the one who posted the link above, starting a new discussion while yours was just about the same subject...
                    I discover and  tested this FFGL plugin just very recently, but it's a big improve compare to the original one, wich is to my point of view just unusuable.
                    It seems to be an adaptation of a Resolume original plugin. In Resolume, there is much more posibility to finely set the effect, with a much better result. In Isadora the functions "Feather"  and "Ramp" seems to be just inactive, so the edge of mask is very rough.
                    About delay, it exist but is not that bad, can't say in images, nothing compare, again, to the old stuff...
                    One thing I wonder is that the "Video in watcher" actor is outing in vd-cpu mode. So I have to use a "video to Texture" actor to convert the signal and be accepted by the FFGL Chroma-Key actor. I guess it's time consuming and wonder if there is a way to avoid it...

                    My test : HD camera connected in HDMI on a Black Magic Studio. Isadora 2.0b12 on Mac Pro 3.1, 2x2,8 Ghz with  GeForce GTX 660

                    MBP 15' 2019 & MBP 13' 2015 - OSX10.14 & MP 2.8Ghz QC Xeon + GTX660 - OSX10.12 / Isadora 2.6.1/3.2 - Located France

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                    • Aolis
                      Aolis last edited by

                      For live green screen in a theatre setting I absolutely LOVE doing green screen/blue screen work with a Reflectmedia kit:

                      http://www.reflecmedia.com/broadcast/products/chromatte/index.htm
                      You can use what ever tool you want to do the key - what matters is the quality of your source image.
                      -Alex

                      Media Artist & Teacher
                      MacBook Pro, Apple M3 Max, 128 GB
                      Sonoma 14.3.1

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                      • G
                        gavspav Beta Silver last edited by

                        The new kinect does much cleaner background subtraction than the last one. Lower latency too. Its very impressive!

                        Windows only though and the sdk is still in Beta at the moment.

                        http://www.digitalfunfair.co.uk I'm using M1 MBP 14" mostly but sometimes use older Mac & Windows machines.

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                        • mark
                          mark last edited by

                          @laurentR

                          For what it's worth: none of the CPU based plugins are going to perform well with HD. In the old days of 640x480, they were quite usable. But for 1920x1080, they just can't handle the bandwidth. That's why 2.0 + FFGL is the path everyone must adopt for the future.
                          Best,
                          Mark

                          Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                          Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                          • Unfenswinger
                            Unfenswinger last edited by

                            Another option for live chroma keying might be PixelConduit (FREE) with the $19 Video Link upgrade which will give you Syphon support. Conduit was designed primarily for live production work so might be worth checking out?

                            I've been using the plugin version of Conduit for years in Motion and it has proven it's worth on many occasions when a nodal approach to compositing has been required.

                            @unfenswinger
                            Gone all PC...

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                            • Michel
                              Michel Izzy Guru last edited by

                              @Unfenswinger

                              A few years ago I have tried PixelConduit but had to much crashes to work on a production with it. But maybe worth trying again.

                              Best
                              Michel

                              Michel Weber | www.filmprojekt.ch | rMBP (2019) i9, 16gig, AMD 5500M 8 GB, OS X 10.15 | located in Winterthur Switzerland.

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                              • Fred
                                Fred last edited by

                                green screen is hard, if you have great lighting, on the subject and the screen and a good camera (442- better colour reproduction) you can start to work. I would seriously look at renting hardware for this. The blackmagic ATEM switcher 2me has a pretty good kery inside it, it is a cheap piece of kit- under 2k and rental therefore is also cheap. You can run an SDI camera into it and feed your background into another input and you have your composite without touching anything in Izzy- leaving your machine free for making everything work. The other great advantage is that you will have only 1 frame latency if you output the image from the mixer, if you want to put it back into your computer for mapping you only have the roundtrip delay no processing.

                                The other solution to look at is TSPS
                                http://www.tsps.cc/
                                It might help, with proper lighting you can use background subtraction and send the mask over syhpon.

                                http://www.fredrodrigues.net/
                                https://github.com/fred-dev
                                OSX 13.6.4 (22G513) MBP 2019 16" 2.3 GHz 8-Core i9, Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB, 32g RAM
                                Windows 10 7700K, GTX 1080ti, 32g RAM, 2tb raided SSD

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                                • crystalhorizon
                                  crystalhorizon Beta Platinum last edited by

                                  So maybe this could be a new thread: to find FFGLs for the effects we used till now. For example I cant find a simple motion blur, I only find blur.

                                  There are others that would be also great: Luminance Key, HSL adjust, ...

                                  Alexander Nantschev | http://www.crystalhorizon.at | located in Vienna Austria

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                                  • primaldivine
                                    primaldivine last edited by

                                    http://community.freeframe.org/plugindatabase

                                    Pro-User Latest Beta - MacBook Pro i7 2.66GHz SSD
                                    www.jamiegriffiths.com Arctic Canada
                                    www.chickweedarts.com

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                                    • crystalhorizon
                                      crystalhorizon Beta Platinum last edited by

                                      @primaldivine Is there  a motion blur in that list for mac? I cant find any plugins on the petewarden site, because there is a plugin listed "Petedirectionalblur" on your link

                                      Alexander Nantschev | http://www.crystalhorizon.at | located in Vienna Austria

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                                      • primaldivine
                                        primaldivine last edited by

                                        an interesting framework on github for iOS gpu effects... its not FFGL.. but related I suppose.
                                        http://www.sunsetlakesoftware.com/2012/02/12/introducing-gpuimage-framework

                                        Pro-User Latest Beta - MacBook Pro i7 2.66GHz SSD
                                        www.jamiegriffiths.com Arctic Canada
                                        www.chickweedarts.com

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                                        • Unfenswinger
                                          Unfenswinger last edited by

                                          @primaldivine,

                                          Are you familiar with the Interactive Shader Format developed and made open source by the VDMX guys?
                                          [http://vdmx.vidvox.net/blog/isf](http://vdmx.vidvox.net/blog/isf)
                                          It would allow potential hundreds of GLSL shaders from [Shader Toy](https://www.shadertoy.com) and [GLSL Sandbox](http://glslsandbox.com) to be made accessible in Isadora. The Shader code needs to be modified with a header to publish the inputs but it appears relatively easy. While not as powerful as FFGL there does appear much more community activity in developing GLSL shaders which we could all benefit from.
                                          The downside is that it is Mac only ATM but I wondered if it was something that would be of interest to Isadora users?

                                          @unfenswinger
                                          Gone all PC...

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                                          • G
                                            gavspav Beta Silver last edited by

                                            This was discussed at the meetup in Berlin wasn't it?

                                            I can't remember the outcome but I guess new features aren't top of the list at the moment.
                                            +1 from me though.
                                            Would it be possible to write a FFGL plugin which can dynamically load isf files?

                                            http://www.digitalfunfair.co.uk I'm using M1 MBP 14" mostly but sometimes use older Mac & Windows machines.

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