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    Yosemite Monitors - Out of Order After Reboot?

    Hardware
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    • Michel
      Michel Izzy Guru last edited by

      for the trojan horse I used a mac mini with Yosemite an 6 LED Pico projectors (two of them showed a mirrored output) so at the end there where 5 individual screens, I have used the HDMI out, a ZOTAC miniDisplayPort to Dual HDMI Adapter went into the Thunderbolt input and two USB to HDMI adapters. I controlled everything with screensharing.

      Re-ordering the display in the system settings does not work and after restart reverts to default settings. So before I start with a project I attache all displays and restart the system and work with those settings, up to know it worked without any problems.

      By the way, Isadora is working fine for 2 weeks now, running 24 hours a day.

      Best Michel
      4d1642-img_4091.jpg

      Michel Weber | www.filmprojekt.ch | rMBP (2019) i9, 16gig, AMD 5500M 8 GB, OS X 10.15 | located in Winterthur Switzerland.

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      • primaldivine
        primaldivine last edited by

        Hi All,
        I have also had this issue on both Mavericks and Yosemite and it is an Apple issue, imho, mainly if you have multiple video projectors of matching brands and models.

        I tried to troubleshoot it myself using SwitchResX which allows you to set up custom non-apple screen resolutions, in the hope that it would force the screens to lock to the same outputs. But basically if the Mac restarts, the cable outputs seem to be like shuffling a pack of cards... for example, Stage 1 might end up on a different display output since Apple now chose a different one to call 'Display 2'.

        For me this was a particular issue on a Mac Tower with two graphics cards, one using a Matrox. The Matrox did a better job of holding the configuration, but it was not perfect.

        The show was running for a month without me, and the file was too big, too many scenes to be able to switch the actor stage output numbers, so I had to teach the crew to patiently work on unplugging and replugging the cables until they grabbed correctly. Using the Displays preferences was less effective than unplugging and replugging the cables.

        With projectors of different models, it doesn't seem such an issue and Michel's advice will probably work fine. Just let the Mac pick the machine order herself, in the beginning and then don't reorder the outputs yourself.

        I am amazed really... that Apple hasn't figured this issue out before now. Graphics cards have serial numbers for instance... and so do Projectors. How hard is this to do? I don't know... but somehow it seems very amateur of Apple.

        Pro-User Latest Beta - MacBook Pro i7 2.66GHz SSD
        www.jamiegriffiths.com Arctic Canada
        www.chickweedarts.com

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        • Skulpture
          Skulpture Izzy Guru last edited by

          I agree Jamie. very frustrating.

          Graham Thorne | www.grahamthorne.co.uk
          RIG 1: Windows 11, AMD 7 Ryzen, RTX3070, 16gig RAM. 2 x M.2 SSD. HD. Lenovo Legion 5 gaming laptop.
          RIG 2: Windows 11, Intel i19 12th Gen. RTX3070ti, 16gig RAM (ddr5), 1x M.2 SSD. UHD DELL G15 Gaming laptop.
          RIG 3: Apple rMBP i7, 8gig RAM 256 SSD, HD, OS X 10.12.12

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          • mark
            mark last edited by

            Dear @primaldivine, @skulpture, @DusX and @Michel, and Everyone

            Ok, the initial indications from the theater in NYC who I am working with to solve this problem are this:
            Michel is a genius. ;-) Because I believe his advice was the key to the solution.
            Well, OK.. they are still going through the process of rebooting ten times to a really see if the projector order stays the same. I will report back  to let you know if this test succeeded or failed for them.
            Here's what we did:
            1) Go to ~/Library/Preferences/ByHost/
            2) Delete the file com.apple.windowserver.XXXXXXXX... (the XXXXXX part is quite long and will be different on every machine.) This file holds the display order you've defined previously in the Displays panel of the System Preferences. (Note that _any previously saved setups will be lost_ because of this.)
            3) Reboot
            4) Now – from this point forward – **never** reorder your monitors in the Displays panel of the System Preferences. Instead, you need to physically reorder your cables so that the right image shows up on the right projector/display
            5) Label everything and write down how they are plugged in to the computer, because the cable order is obviously critical now; you can just reorder it in software.
            I hope that helps someone out with this very annoying problem. (Thanks to @k8tefree her help in sorting this [hopefully] out.)
            Best Wishes,
            Mark

            Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
            Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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            • Skulpture
              Skulpture Izzy Guru last edited by

              Interesting. thanks @mark.

              Graham Thorne | www.grahamthorne.co.uk
              RIG 1: Windows 11, AMD 7 Ryzen, RTX3070, 16gig RAM. 2 x M.2 SSD. HD. Lenovo Legion 5 gaming laptop.
              RIG 2: Windows 11, Intel i19 12th Gen. RTX3070ti, 16gig RAM (ddr5), 1x M.2 SSD. UHD DELL G15 Gaming laptop.
              RIG 3: Apple rMBP i7, 8gig RAM 256 SSD, HD, OS X 10.12.12

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              • Michel
                Michel Izzy Guru last edited by

                @Mark

                yes labeling the cables inputs and projectors is really important to never swap the order.

                Best Michel

                Michel Weber | www.filmprojekt.ch | rMBP (2019) i9, 16gig, AMD 5500M 8 GB, OS X 10.15 | located in Winterthur Switzerland.

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                • mark
                  mark last edited by

                  Dear All,

                  @k8tefree reports ten reboots in a row with all the monitors showing up in the right order. Again, @Michel is a genius. ;-)
                  Best Wishes,
                  Mark

                  Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                  Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                  • mc_monte
                    mc_monte Tech Staff last edited by

                    I recently (and regularly) work with 2x Optoma GT750E beamers with my Retina MacBook Pro. I haven't seen this issue before. Sounds frustrating. My machines and cabling are all labeled and the outputs have always been identical every time. Is this why I've never encountered this issue before? Are there any steps to recreate it possibly, I can try them out...

                    [Troikatronix Technical Support Staff] Located in Toronto, Canada.
                    Need help with Isadora? Send us a ticket [https://support.troikatronix.com/support/tickets/new
                    Montgomery Martin -- [http://www.montycmartin.com]

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                    • mark
                      mark last edited by

                      Dear @mc_monte,

                      I think that the way you can make it happen is to start mucking around with the projector order in the Displays panel in the System Preferences. If you reorder the displays, and if they attached devices are of the same make and model, then Mac OS won't always show them in the same order. So, if you never did that -- i.e., reordered the displays – you probably would not have encountered the issue.
                      In my procedure above, steps 1 and 2, where you delete the preferences for the Displays panel ensures that you're starting fresh and not dealing with any lingering re-ordered setups. That's probably the key to fixing the situation.
                      Best,
                      Mark

                      Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                      Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                      • Fred
                        Fred last edited by

                        Here is something that may help.

                        https://github.com/lucasvickers/osx-display-positioner
                        Just a command line tool. I guess the same functions could be inside izzy- does anyone know if this be run from the javascript actor? @DusX?

                        http://www.fredrodrigues.net/
                        https://github.com/fred-dev
                        OSX 10.15.15 MBP 2019 16" 2.3 GHz 8-Core i9, Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB, 32g RAM
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                        • mark
                          mark last edited by

                          Dear @DusX,

                          I'm not convinced about this. I suspect that the problem occurs when you are using multiple hardware devices (e.g., projectors) that are identical - i.e., same model number, resolution, etc.. I have the feeling that Mac OS can't discern which is which, and thus loses the configuration.

                          I am not sure how this code (I looked at it) would solve this problem.
                          Best,
                          Mark

                          Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                          Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                          • Michel
                            Michel Izzy Guru last edited by

                            @Mark

                            The post comes from @Fred not from @DusX :-).

                            Best Michel

                            Michel Weber | www.filmprojekt.ch | rMBP (2019) i9, 16gig, AMD 5500M 8 GB, OS X 10.15 | located in Winterthur Switzerland.

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                            • Fred
                              Fred last edited by

                              @Mark, it will not help in that it would keep the correct order when the models are identical. It could however give a utility in Isadora that would allow you to track and reorder displays in the the system without messing with your patch or stage id's. I tagged @DusX as I thought he would know if we can run this command from the JavaScript actor and then create a user actor to reorder outputs.

                              http://www.fredrodrigues.net/
                              https://github.com/fred-dev
                              OSX 10.15.15 MBP 2019 16" 2.3 GHz 8-Core i9, Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB, 32g RAM
                              Windows 10 7700K, GTX 1080ti, 32g RAM, 2tb raided SSD
                              Windows 10 Threadripper 3960x 64g ram, 1tb NVME, rtx 2080ti + rtx2070 super

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                              • mark
                                mark last edited by

                                Dear @Fred,

                                You shouldn't be able to run a command line thing from Javascript. That would be very dangerous. (Am I wrong @DusX?)
                                Well, the code code easily be integrated into Isadora though. For your purposes Fred, what advantage would this have over the normal Displays control panel? I mean, are you saying you'd (for instance) like an actor that could reorganize the displays?
                                Best Wishes,
                                Mark

                                Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                                Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                                • dbengali
                                  dbengali last edited by

                                  I have been encountering the same issue this week. However, although there are multiple output devices of the same make and model, Yosemite is surprisingly remembering the screen order we set up in Display Preferences on reboot.  Clicking on each display in the Display Arrangement window (which reveals a red outline) verifies that the computer is setting the output order the same on reboots.

                                  However, in Isadora, the Display number relationship to physical output does not remain the same.  "Display 1" in isadora preferences will refer to one output device on one boot, but to another device on another boot, even when these devices do not appear to have been re-ordered by the OS as far as how they appear in Mac Displays Preferences (and the order in which the mouse moves from one projector to the next)
                                  We don't have the option of reordering the physical plugs, because we have several different types of graphics cards, and are putting the harder work onto the better card and the easier work onto the weaker cards.
                                  Will try deleting com.apple.windowserver.XXX file, but it sounds like that may leave us with the displays in some strange order that we may have to live with since we can't reorder plugs.  Not the worst thing if it fixes everything else.  But if Yosemite is not actually re-ordering the displays, might we have a different problem?
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                                  • DusX
                                    DusX Tech Staff last edited by

                                    @ Fred

                                    There is no way to gain access to any thing outside of Isadora using Javascript. The environment is very much sandboxed and does not contain any browser specific features like access to the DOM.
                                    I use TCP-ip to communicate with my external scripts (although I must launch the server first)... in this way I have full system access.

                                    Troikatronix Technical Support

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                                    • O
                                      Old_Dog last edited by

                                      I am late to this discussion but I have found that the MAC Pro that I am using will not even boot up with the Barco projector that I am using in conjunction with a Christie projector for another stage. The Mac is a six-core w/16GB and running latest Yosemite. The Christie is getting signal via Long Range DVI Extenders over CAT 6 shielded cable. The Barco is using a VGA run. I can boot with the Christie display plugged but almost always lose my curser into the black background so I just boot with the projectors not connected and then connect them. I know there must be a more sophisticated method but at least this work around has accomplished the goal,

                                      Related to the MAC issue, when I work at home, I have three external displays connected to my MAC Book Pro, one via mini-display port and two through USB video adapters. The Mac never remembers the arrangement or the display preference.
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                                      • K
                                        knowtheatre last edited by

                                        I'm a little late to this discussion as well, but @mark, has Apple given any word of this issue?  Has it been fixed in El Capitan?  I'm still on Yosemite, but from the research I've found, it seems the problem goes all the way back to Mountain Lion and is a known bug at Apple.  This issue also seems to affect screen sharing.  I'm running off of a 2008 Mac Pro, but the booth in this theatre is in an awkward position, so I do mapping via screen sharing on my MBP in the house.  I can connect to the Mac Pro and I can see the screen and mouse, but when I try to click on something, it ends up clicking on a completely different screen.  Now this might be a totally unrelated issue, but it seems like screen sharing isn't recognizing the arrangement either.  I'll try Mark's fix, and see what happens...

                                        M1 Mac Mini, 16 GB, MacOS Monterey 12.2.1

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                                        • mark
                                          mark last edited by

                                          Dear @knowtheater,

                                          I don't know that Apple has publicly acknowledged the problem, nor have I specifically filed a bug report about it. 
                                          As far as the clicking and ending up on a different screen entirely, this one I've not heard of. (And I assume here you're talking only about use via Screen Sharing, is that right?)
                                          But do try my fix above and see if that helps at all. Then report back.
                                          Best Wishes,
                                          Mark

                                          Media Artist & Creator of Isadora
                                          Macintosh SE-30, 32 Mb RAM, MacOS 7.6, Dual Floppy Drives

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                                          • K
                                            knowtheatre last edited by

                                            Well, things were looking good for a few days, but all screens out of order again for the show Sunday.  Not a big deal, re-ordered in Izzy preferences, although in the re-ordering, it seemed to somehow loose it's mapping.  Nothing within system preferences was changed, only the stages within Isadora preferences were changed.  All three projectors are running at the same aspect ratio (btw, they are three different brands and models of projector, if that makes any difference).  I've attached photos of what the projection should look like vs what it looked like when the projectors lost their assignments.

                                            And yes, @mark, the clicking problems were solely in trying to use screen sharing.  I ended up using Chrome Remote Desktop, which recognized each display and I could control the desktop, but it was super annoying, as it has a built in time limit, which I prompts a click to confirm that I'm still sharing.  I wasn't able to bypass it or even control that click via remote, so every 15 minutes I had to run back into the booth to confirm.  It worked, but I got a work out as well...
                                            For what it's worth, [HERE](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4157760?start=0&tstart=0) is a pretty lengthy forum about the multi display issue.

                                            775492-6340.jpeg 4e89af-6295.jpeg

                                            M1 Mac Mini, 16 GB, MacOS Monterey 12.2.1

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