If I want to get serious with Isadora, do I need to be working on a Mac?

Skulpture

"_ draw a map of Spain on the touchpad"_ LOLZ - Spat my coffee out right there....

Woland

Glad you enjoyed that :)

mark_m

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your input.
I already know most of the arguments of Mac Vs PC etc and they've been done to death :-)

Specifically I am asking about using Isadora on these two platforms and asking simply "does Isadora work better on the Mac than the PC?". This question is not about Mac vs PC on any other level :-)

Marci

The answer is... it depends. Short answer is, yes, it does play better on Mac... IF you happen to be using (for instance)...

- Kinect and/or

- Processing and/or

- OSC and/or

- handling of MultiChannel Audio i/o (due to flexibility of CoreAudio standard vs independent manufacturer ASIO drivers on Windows and wide variance of implementation)

...simply because these protocols etc are all more mature and solid on OSX than on Windows. But again, this is essentially Mac vs PC, with a _coincidental side-effect_ on Isadora use. So, _it depends...!_

Personally, after being a PC hardware engineer for best part of 20 years under [O-CuK] & ThermoChill, I switched to Mac solely because of the extent of my Isadora use and the necessity to interface Isadora with other apps and hardware that are handled more appropriately and reliably by OSX. I haven’t used a PC for any of this stuff since.

As for the gaming argument / graphics hardware argument - both my Macbook Pros can handle running rFactor2 via Bootcamp with triple-head FullHD output & IR head tracking - & whilever they continue to do so, I won’t ever have a problem as far as gaming is concerned! So even from the gamers perspective, the answer is still... _it depends!_

mark_m

@Marci, Thanks!

Yes, I can absolutely see myself using OSC and Multichannel audio: my current project involves both.
Already have hit a wall with the multichannel audio stuff in Windows, though had excellent support and suggestions from @DusX.
I want to use Kinect, but have had reliability issues with it - on both platforms - that don't make me 100% happy about using it in performance situations. But that's with Skeleton tracking. Maybe I should be a bit less ambitious.

I look into my crystal ball and the future is suggesting a second-hand Mac for running shows on....

Marci

Indeed - dodge skeletons, use blobs, Kinect becomes infinitely more reliable, but less convenient to implement for the end-user... majority of stability issues stem from plugging it into USB3 when it really needs USB2, but walk before you can run etc.... A Mac-Mini can be had for a few hundred that's good enough for most things that work better on the Mac platform - I picked up my current i7 MacMini Server secondhand for £250. You can then trigger from the Mac Izzy to Windows Izzy on a separate machine via Midi-over-TCP / whatever (and vice-versa). I take 2x MB Pros, a Mac Mini, and a Dell QuadCore XPS Studio laptop running Win7 for intense shows, with the Izzy work distributed across them as appropriate. Eg: cheap USB 4x channel composite capture stick - ONLY works in Windows... and one of the PTZ setups I use also only runs from Windows, so the Dell tends to handle SD video capture and control. The USB3 MBPro is dedicated to GPU intensive / syphon / HD Video capture & control, the older USB2 MBPro handles Kinect (x2), Z-vector and Processing2. The MacMini tends to handle overall Izzy scene control & navigation across all the machines along with MOTU828MkII & 8PRE for 20ch audio IO... (EVERYTHING FireWire based works better on OSX when it comes to audio io) and operates various hardware matrix switchers via USB to RS232 to shift display output from one machine to capture input of another etc. Then I have 3x Raspberry Pis that are all OSC-over-WiFi receivers that turn rf-controlled sockets and relays on and off, control anything that uses IR etc. Possibilities are endless... no point limiting yourself to a single platform! Just treat each system as another module for your Izzy arsenal :D

mark_m

@marci That's brilliant useful information, thank you.

_Just treat each system as another module for your Izzy arsenal :D
_I knew there was a reason I was hanging on to that 2008 MBP!

Also a really excellent insight into how you work and how you set-up your work.
Do you have a website or something which shows your work?
Do we ever have UK Isadora meetups?!
Should we?!

Marci

Nope, no site. I only work via word of mouth on projects with a few local guys really, hardly a pro... if you’ve ever caught Off the Wall Pink Floyd Tribute in theatres in UK, turning up with full stage show, then I’m usually there and everything you’re seeing is coming from me sat in the wings (or the stalls with my iPad). A lot of what I’m doing now is for a show yet-to-be; when there’s enough money to tour it, along with concepts for some installation pieces that I hope to plonk into the local artwalk at somepoint, when I can afford to buy a few more projectors.

From what I’ve seen, UK meets are few n’ far between, with only a handful of UK users spread across the country... altho more do seem to be appearing as time goes by. *nudges @skulpture*

DusX

Its true, that it depends.

I would argue that Kinect is more stable on Windows.. but it depends on how you are running it.

I am currently using Kinect V2 on windows.. and loving it.

OSC has never been an issue for me on Windows, but audio is definitely more convenient on Mac. However, I have a rock-solid method of using Isadora with Renoise (great OSC integration).

Personally I stay away from Processing, so I can't comment on that much.

My current work is largely done interfacing Isadora with Python and 'externals' (openframeworks executables etc..)

Skulpture

@marci is very much a pro!

Great overview Marci thank you. I agree; both mac and PC can be bought fairly cheap or second hand for the best of both worlds. Unless you are building a very big show computer for an install or huge projection mapping project then really having both is the answer; which I know isn't ideal but realistically thats the only way you can have the benefits of both.

_Note: For future readers/newbies or people thinking of buying Isadora and reading this post: _

_I would like to state on Marks behalf (owner and creator) that its not always that he wont make Isadora work the same on windows as it does on mac - sometimes it just physically cant be done. I can say that we talk very often behind the scenes about the windows and mac version and we/Mark try very hard to keep them equal. _