Projecting onto Glass

Skulpture

Hi All,

Starting researching into this an hour ago. But as always I like to ask on here too! You are all super clever people and hopefully a few nice links, comments and discussions may arise.

I am only talking about small scale projection here. Smaller than a normal bay window, probably one single plane of glass. Just text with nice flowing background colours and abstracts. Its a commercial install using Isadora basically.

In my first hour I have discovered a product from [3M called Vikuiti,](http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M/en_GB/EU-DisplaysGraphics/Home/ProdInfo/Vikuiti/) but its apparently very expensive.

The second technique is to sandblast the glass and make it rough; but this is a valid method for the project i'm working on.

I have heard about 'rose glass' but cant find anything about it (yet).

I am also aware of the [peppers ghost/reflection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper's_ghost) technique but space and bouncing off mirrors might not work.... its a possibility but this isn't ideal for logistical reasons.

I will continue to update this post with my findings but please feel free to chip in and comment as all thoughts are welcome.

Thanks! :-)

Lanz

hey skulpture,

My friend works at this place, have a look at their products, they have Maaaany different types of projection solutions it should bring up other ideas / techniques....

http://www.rearpro.com/products/default.asp

best

Lanz

Skulpture

Brilliant! Thnaks @Lanz

JJHP3

Regular 'ole frosted glass works great... someone with a sandblasting business can do a custom sheet of glass for you too.

hth,

John

vanakaru

Do you have to project onto the glass or it is just glass window(door) where the projection would be?

Few things come to mind right away. I would use film/tape that adds semi-transparent surface to the glass and illuminates on projector light. This tape can be made(cut) into shapes itself to create dimensional effect. Or just add a projection surface onto the glass pane. I have used black projection vinyl? very effectively.

Skulpture

Thanks @JJHP3 and @vanakaru

The glass still needs to be see through, or as best as possible.

I have found a very expensive way but little documentation about electronic fibers or something in glass that make the window non-transparent but its super mega omg expensive. Very cool though. A decent example here called 'Smart Film';

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnWVx1s9Vj4

I actually think the best way is to frost the glass; but id need to experiment with finding how much or less frosted it needs to be.

Skulpture

Another (from 2008!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMp6iTAHfBU

vanakaru

Look at the various density tape/films add printers may have. Also you could use the technique they use for advertising on public transportation. You cut the film into a net of small holes or stripes thus allowing good amount of transparency and density at the same time.

If you go with physical work to glass surface use acid(etching) not sandblasting. You get better transparency with enough projection surface density.

eight

I did once project on a glass, which was only slightly dirty (regular window glass, not washed). The result was stunning in complete darkness.

--8

CitizenJoe

Hi Skulpture,

I've done this sort of thing quite a lot with varying degrees of success. A few additional details might be helpful. What sort on an environment will you be in: theatrical; club; installation? What are the competing light sources? You say the thing needs to be as see through as possible, but then say it can be frosted, so do you mean that you have to be able to see the details of what's behind it or just that there is "something outside"?

Something that we use a lot in the theatrical world is sharkstooth scrim: http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory155/fabric-by-type-sharkstooth-scrim.aspx

The great thing about scrim is that when you light in front of it or side light the fabric itself it's opaque, but when you light behind it, it becomes translucent. You can project on to it quite successfully. it comes in varying weaves up to 35 feet, so you can make very large surfaces if you want to! Mark did something like this in Loopdiver using mosquito screening, which is cheap and has a similar effect.

Rose Brand is in the US, but there are plenty of European manufacturers, as well.

You might also look here: http://rosco.com/uk/index.cfm for ideas.

Cheers,

Hugh

Skulpture

If the project goes ahead it will be in an art gallery and/or museum.

Very expensive collections in glass cabinets. Some air tight. Various sizes but none of them huge (less than 4ft across)

My idea was to use small projectors located in front of the glass and projecting onto small areas of the glass cases with information, short videos, some branding, etc.

The scrim sounds good; i'd heard of that before but forgot about it, thanks.

Michel

Also worth looking at.
http://www.ssidisplays.com/rear-projection-film/intrigue

Best,
Michel

MatthewH

Does it need to be glass or would something like half frosted acrylic work? That would be cheaper and much easier to handle and install than frosted glass. Available in sheets up to 4'x8' and I have used it as an RP surface before with good results.

keftaparty

Hi,

I did some experimentations and shows projecting on frost plexiglass.

I can give only one advice:

Try every material in the exact situation it will be used !

I had one very bad experience: I tried one material with a long zoom projector, the image was ok.

But at the end I had to use a wide angle projector. The center of the image was perfect, but all around the light was arriving on the surface with too much angle and was impossible to see !

Also take care to the angle the "spectators" will have, with that kind of shiny surfaces you get very differrent results depending on the point of view.

Have fun !

Best

Mehdi

CitizenJoe

@Skulpture - It sounds like a really interesting project!

Given the situation, I would be inclined to go towards the really expensive films. In small quantities they may be affordable and they will provide a good projection surface. Most importantly, they won't affect how the viewer sees what's inside the case. I would think that would be the #1 consideration from the museum's point of view.

Cheers,

Hugh

dansnodgrass

@skulpture. If your prerequisite is to be able to see a sharp image and still have the glass to be transparent, there is really only one solution and it's expensive: HoloPro. Similar glass was used in the movie Minority Report.

I installed and use an 8' wide HoloPro glass panel at my company for presentation purposes and it's amazing. To get clarity and transparency of glass, embedded holographic foil is really the only solution. Otherwise, you need to go with rear-projection film (and of course, this means you won't get the transparency.

Cheers.

dansnodgrass

Here is our installation:

particlep

this is an interesting thread. i did some searching and found this uk outfit:

http://www.prodisplay.com/index.html

lcd glass is great, but does it go clear enough for a museum setting?

Victreux

Hello,

Some friends was worked on this show in Avignon. Verry cool projection on glass!

http://www.theatre-video.net/video/Le-Livre-d-or-de-Jan-extrait-video

Skulpture

All brilliant stuff thanks all!

You've all really helped me out and given me lots to think about.