"Initialize" updated across User Actors



  • Hello, 
    I've got a show file for touring where depending on the front projector's position (balcony rails/booths that change height/distance) I want to change the vertical position of the subtitles of the show. I went through and replaced them all with a user actor that would let me update the vertical position of all the lines (they are all centred the same) so I didn't have to go through each cue during the set up. Where I am having a problem is that when I update the user actor, it will change the "initialize" value to whatever the updated user actor was. Since this value is not the same in all the instances, it still means that I have to go through and check every cue. 
    For example, I will update the user actor (just changing the  vertical position) and it will go and change the initialize value of the intensity which sometimes I need it to be zero and sometimes 100\. Does anyone know why this happens, since the published variables are scene specific?
    Cheers,
    Paco


  • hi paco. i do not have answer to your question, sorry, but i do have something to consider. i understand that you have an isadora patch that runs a show that tours. i understand that for new venues certain parameters need to alter to make the output of the patch fit the dsign inention of the production. i understand that at the moment this process of alteration is slow and u r looking for a way to do it and have come across another problem. the parameters that need to alter, could they be viewed as global throughout the patch ? ie alter them in set up build time and those altered values become used throughout the patch ?



  • I normally use osc transmit and create a unique channel for each parameter. Then copy and paste it. Then jser listner to pick these values up. So if I change the projector height in scene 1 it sends it to all other scenes also. It takes a while to set up but once done its done. You have to activate the scene(s) but keyboard watchers can help with this.



  • @PacoTheCharm 

    have you tried adding a calculator actor on each user input with an add 0 condition ?  this has helped me with a similar situation with a counter actor in a user actor on the output stage, although that was min and max issues.
    i'm not so sure now that i understand what you've asked.


  • also... have you seen this thread from the old forum ?

    http://forum.troikatronix.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=12839;search_string=data%20array;guest=21843633&t=search_engine#12839
    it might be something similar to what you describe.


  • The way I tend to do this when I need to pass more than a few values from a calibration scene to every other scene is that the cue with grids records all the relevant global values to an array and then each scene just opens that file and updates it's projectors, etc. It takes a few minutes to do the programming and you have to keep the .txt files with the main patch but I have used this method for several shows including a couple tours and it has always worked flawlessly for me.



  • Thanks all for the quick replies!

    I did have a look at that thread and I am putting the projector actor of all of these subtitle cues inside a user actor. What is happening is that even though the "initialize" in the intensity variable has different position through out several scenes (should be scene specific outside of the user actor), when I go inside the user actor and update the vertical position, the initialized position of the intensity changes in all of the scenes even though I haven't changed it inside the global user actor. 
    Values that are scene specific I have control of in the cue and they don't change unless I specify that change in each cue. So horizontal position/zoom/intensity all stay where I tell them to in each scene. what is changing without me telling it is the initialized values of intensity in each cue. 


  • Try using the "enter scene value" actor (outside of the user actor, one in each affected scene) instead of the initialize to give you your required value in each scene.



  • nice idea @CraigAlfredson - i was going to offer the same advice.



  • What I suggested is a great work around, but indeed if I understand correctly what Paco is describing, it is a bug and a bug report should be filed.

    Craig


  • Dear Paco and All,

    I think Isadora is doing what it is supposed to do, even though it's not what you want it to do. 
    Remember: everything inside the user actor will be copied to all instances of that user actor, _including the one in the global toolbox_. The point of User Actors is that, when you save "Save and Update All" it really does update _every_ instance of that User Actor, so that all of them are exactly alike.
    So, consider the following scenario:
    1) Create User Actor with a Projector
    2) Set Projector's Vertical Position Input - Init Value chebkox enabled, value set to 25.0
    3) Close User Actor tab and "Save and Update All"
    4) Save User Actor to Global Toolbox
    5) Create three new scenes, add new User Actor from Global Toolbox into each scene
    6) Go to scene three, open user actor, set Init Value to 10.0
    7) Close User Actor tab and "Save and Update All"
    When you say "Save and Update All" in step 7, every User Actor in the patch is updated so that the Init Value is 10.0 -- _including the one in the Global Toolbox._
    If you want a value that changes by the scene, then you must add a User Input to allow that value to be "customized" for the scene. 
    So, maybe I'm not understanding your description from above. If not, the please correct me. But what I've described above is the expected behavior.
    Best Wishes,
    Mark


  • I think the problem he is having is with the intensity variable which is outside the user actor using a User input.  The initialize should not update for stuff on the inputs globally.  For now use the Enter Scene Value Actor and uncheck initialize on all of them.  Sounds like a bug to me.



  • Dear Paco,

    Can you verify this? Is the "initialize" input you are referring to on the _outside_ of the User Actor? (I.e., an input to the User Actor?)
    Thanks,
    Mark


  • Yes, the stuff that is inside the global user actor updates like it should. This problem I am having happens in the Initialize values outside of the user, as one of the user inputs into the user actor. Which is weird since the values remain if they are set without an initialize.

    I have made a small example patch with instructions. 
    Thanks for your attention mark!
    Cheers,
    Paco

    b39f5f-initializequestion.izz



  • I just ran into this same problem.  Running Isadora Core 1.3.0f24 on a new 2014 Mac Pro.

    I set up several user actors with video & intensity inputs... projecting onto four hanging screens (with one physical projector). I'm using it to manage my masking - so the video & insensity inputs go into the user actors, and then it goes through some alpha masking and into a projector actor (within the user actor).
    On a regular stage, if I set the "initialize" on the user actor to a value, and then in another stage edit the user actor, and save and "update all" it will clear the initialize setting, and set the intensity to 0\.  To be clear, I'm not talking about an "initialize" inside the user actor - just on the outside of it (the input to the user actor).
    I'm using the "Enter Scene Value" actor as a workaround... but this is definitely the same bug as described by Paco above.


  • Dear All,

    Please file this bug report using the page at http://troikatronix.com/support/isadora/ -- that way I won't lose track of it. I will ensure this gets fixed before the new release goes out.
    Best Wishes,
    Mark


  • Done!  Thanks Mark.  If you want a copy of the showfile, just let me know.

    (For my own reference so I can find it for you later, the show was JLR Laguna June 11, 2014)


  • @Paco. Hello there. How are you? Long time, no see :)

    Wondering if you can try this Isadora test file (attached) and tell me if you see the same kind of initialisation setting problem you mention in this discussion. I have been troubleshooting this and it seems to be related to incorrect user actor saving rather than a bug, but if you can try this file and tell me if it works correctly for you or if it still drops the initialisation, that'd be great.. if you have time?

    After I saved the user actors in the way that the manual recommends, I haven't seen the behaviour that both you and @awilder describe.
    In short I have not been able to recreate the bug...

    If you do try it and still experience the bug, can you send in a bug report, Paco?

    (@awilder I already have a bug report and detailed correspondence from you, so at this stage I don't need you to send me another one.)

    thanks, Jamie

    92bd7e-test-initialise-user-actor-jg.izz


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