Isadora 3 Pricing: Please Read and Respond

[dbini]

i've been thinking about the buy-to-own vs subscription thing. i think the main issue is that i, along with pretty much everyone here, have invested quite a lot of cash in buying and upgrading Isadora so far (I have a standard license and a USB license) (plus the hardware to run it) and then to be asked to pay a monthly subscription to be able to use it feels frustrating. if the team are to start a subscription scheme, i think it needs to run alongside a buy-to-own system that takes into account the users' prior investments. i don't mind paying 100€ to upgrade to v3 to get access to increased performance and new features, but i wouldn't want to pay 20€ a month forever. (i currently pay 12.40€ a month for NIMate, after buying a license when it was first launched, and i'm not happy about that - particularly in the months when i don't use it)

[Joest]

What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished?

- As users we should talk more about the tools that we use in trade magazines, lectures, post-show discussions etc. Isadora is perfect for me in a theatre environment where I can quickly show a director changes to an effect without having to wait to render content, so I try to tell my students and colleagues this as often as possible, especially when talking to new clients about the kind of work that I can do.

- PLASA in the UK, along with the ABTT, do trade shows with seminars; a few of us UK users could do some demos of work or training sessions.

- Making the Werkstatt an annual event to network and keeping users connected in a more human context. A number of us in the UK keep in touch and swap headaches (and gigs) now and then but it'd be nice to have a regular date (outside the academic year) to look forward too. Berlin in the Summer is beautiful...

- "Free" SD version for academic students & teachers that runs VGA for 1 stage is a great idea. I teach a few classes a year and having students be able to save their progress will encourage them to keep playing with it. Academic licenses @ 25% off seem fair to allow students to use it for more complicated shows and art installations under the institution.

- A crazy idea, but Ad sponsorship every 30-60 mins via a flash up jpg/mov or similar on an unlicensed version? Sacrilege I know, but it works for "free" Spotify and would be fine for classroom learning. You'd then have to buy a short-term license for a public show's duration.

- How about a Patreon funded by power users or those who want to chip in for extra good karma? You could do the odd special actor release or tutorial video?

- Another horrible idea, but you asked... how about using some cpu processing on the free version for bitcoin mining or other tasks that could add a little back in odd revenue? ;)

- A "Merch" shop online? Isadora T Shirts etc? Perhaps forum users could arrange their own and "tithe back" the profits? It should be on buy-to-print so noone's paying for unsold stock up front.

- A deal with Matrox or Datapath for co-promoting Isadora with multiple output set-ups. A number of us rely on these display boxes to squeeze extra outputs from a single laptop and as a result can compete with a company that has vans full of media servers.

"Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer? What about the yearly and monthly subscription prices? What do you think is fair?

- Definitely BUY for me, but a subscription model like QLab's would be useful for others, or to help a producer to build it into a budget (for a specific license within a show's public run or the duration of a gallery exhibit or permanent advertising display). Maybe if the first month or two were free on an academic subscription that would give students a chance to try it out during a module or project?

- A subscription model wouldn't want to be connected to the Internet to validate if possible, so that auto-updates don't roll in and break/slow the machine

What should the buy to own price for a new license be?

- At least £400-500 seems more than fair in comparison to QLab etc, with a 50% upgrade price for owners of the previous full license version. I've talked about this with other users in the past and I've had more than my money's worth over the years. I'm not the only one who owes you a great debt.

Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

- The forum is great for most people's needs, but you've also always been there for me and a few friends offline when there's a glitch that we can't trace. ETC Lighting offer a great service like this, and whilst you wouldn't want to offer 24hr a day phone/email support, then a quick response is a selling point (not a price point). When Apple or Microsoft change/upgrade/destroy their OS procedures and break 3rd party software like Isadora you need to hear from the canaries quickly and be able to roll with it.

Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

- Everyone should get paid for their art. I believe in supporting student licenses to encourage them to learn the programme and use it in the future, but nobody should be doing things "for the exposure" and that includes the makers of Isadora. Students academic licenses could be reduced further in price if they expired after 3 years without an upgrade payment to "full" (rather than a new full price fee).

If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

- Not personally. Up to date guidelines on the website about recommended minimum specs are good enough, along with tips for optimising performance. I don't think you'd make anything after paying for your time to develop an off the shelf "Isadoratizer" rack-mounted unit. With the proper guidance on shutting down other programmes whilst running a show, and getting a capable laptop/desktop for what you want to achieve most people will trust their own kit (although continue to use it for ALL their work software). Think of the ongoing hardware support costs.

[vixmedia]

Dear Mark,

I don't use Isadora all the time but I still prefer to buy and own the software. I don't want constant updates in the middle of a show I want stability.

If I own the software I keep the same version until the show is complete.

However, I am planning to teach the software, but the lab is concerned about the price of the software. 

It would be a good time to offer a daily/weekly lab subscription for the duration of the class. I want to help Isadora grow by teaching the software.

I agree with a tiered pricing system geared to support level with a student/lab bulk option.

Premium support should be paid. 

I would like to get an artist license -- I have never made any money at all on my shows. 

Example -- I am going to my DVD release where I will use Isadora for the first time in a few years. The show is costing me about $1800. plus airfare.

Tickets are $10 suggested/sliding scale at the door. 

I share your economic situation.

However, I know some people are using Isadora commercially and do make an income from it. They should pay for a commercial license.

I think the Isadora that I am using now is so much better than the previous versions -- drag and drop -- amazing. 

I would like a higher sampling/bit rate on the audio. That's all right now.

I am very happy using Isadora and hope I don't get priced out. However, I will just use the version I have -- it's pretty good!

[eight]

@mark Here's a crazy idea: how about you charge for specific features. For example, supporting some weird (for some) movie file formats (HAP), or shader support (some will never use it, but others, like myself, will often do), or some weird camera support.

[timeg]

I strongly prefer the user own model especially for existing owners. More than happy to pay for upgrades. Existing in a complicated world of RMB AU$ and NZ$ I shall decline to put a figure out there. Tiering is good though. As an artist with now 40 years of practice behind me. I truly respect artist driven software and the truth that younger artists need to be able to get in easily and older ones are and should be happy to pay commensurately.

I think having a subscription model in parallel for new and different types of users is a very good idea. One that can be turned ON and OFF

I also strongly support a viable student model, that will get more people using it. I also have just taken up an academic position and am very keen to get it into the lab.

Having done extensive comparisons to the alternate offerings repeatedly over the years, IZZY is and continues to be the best offering and value not just in money terms. Exploring avenues for making the brand more visible and value perceived is a very worthy idea.

Not so sure at all about hardware for complex reasons.

Bravo to the forum as ever. Some terrific feedback in this stream. This strength is such a big part of IZZYs value. (Yah the social conscience bonemap)

[Lauri]

Isadora has been really a great tool, and I'm eagerly waiting for the new release.

Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

I also prefer “buy-to-own”.

I think it’s very important to have access to the free Isadora version with which you cannot save projects – as it has been until now.

Usually artists like me don’t sell their installation work, and – at least in my country – they don’t get paid for the exhibitions in a gallery (or most times even in a museum). In addition, artists have to pay for everything to show their work (renting equipment, build the structures,…). 

As an artist, I’m often having gallery exhibitions with borrowed or rented computers. If I had to install a full version to a borrowed/rented computer, I would need to pay Isadora twice. And I don’t think that’s fair. Also, I would't like to waste the Isadora registerings to a computer I don't own.

I’ve been very happy to work with the extremely versatile Isadora, and hopefully I can afford doing that in the future too.

Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

I’m not agaist premium support, but 90% of times I’ve asked something in the forum, it has been because of a bug report. I think it’s fair not having to pay for a bug report - and having that bug repaired.

And yes, the great Isadora forum is an indispensable part of the Isadora app.

If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

For my purposes, I often find that there are different kinds of hardware needs depending on the project, so what would be the package that covers “all needs”? Hopefully in the Mac realm also there will be soon stronger machines that have faster cpu/gpu/… available – for different kinds of purposes (not only Isadora). Could that package fully serve and cover our expanding needs? So, I suppose, it depends on the package, but probably no.

[bonemap]

Hi,

• What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished

I see a whole imaginative world built around the software that has a unique brand position. Perhaps around the idea of ‘experiential programming’ and connectivity, where Isadora plays beautifully (joyfully) with other software and hardware systems without the need for coding. Isadora is more than a node based procedural media application used to build realtime graphics systems, it is also a thriving industry and world-wide community.

In this imaginative world Isadora builds character by crowd sourcing; developers; tutorials; support services.

It continuously markets its advantage and profiles its team and users with testimonials linked to innovations; high profile venues; user clusters and user stories.

It builds brand awareness and currency by maintaining up-to-date tutorials on YouTube and Lynda.com.

Its user friendly qualities suited to entry level visual programming are highlighted for new users and made available in a free stripped down version (no longer save disabled) aimed at developing long lasting partnerships with young creatives transitioning from art and media schools.

Its qualities of rapid prototyping; versioning; generative art; animation and procedural creative development are showcased at the highest levels of the industry and with the most influential artists across the world.

• "Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

Anyone who uses Isadora on a daily or weekly basis is going to want to buy-to-own (I fit into this category). Anyone using Isadora infrequently will like an opt-in/opt-out option on time limited licences ( I have this relationship with a couple of other pieces of software). Continuous subscriptions like Adobe CC would suck for Isadora users like me.

• What about the yearly and monthly subscription prices? What do you think is fair

My initial purchase in 2002 was $290 AUD with a USB key addition +$85 with a v1 to v2 upgrade +$165 total amount = $540 ($412US) paid to Troikatronix for software with now over 15 years of up-to-date use (actually there were additional costs for core audio and core video at some stage). That is equivalent to around $2.80 month or $33.75 year, if this is the same for a lot of long term users then I can understand why you are asking these questions and you are lucky to still be solvent!

I am a bit hesitant to admit, but the yearly cost will need to be under $300 as a disincentive from switching completely to TouchDesigner. It would have to be competitive with closest rivals.

• What should the buy to own price for a new license be

Standard edition $600US

• Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

Sell support tickets for those who need it. Maintain the forum as a crowd sourced solution and team communication site – it feels so inclusive and is a key site for the community (thankfully it hasn't all moved to facebook).

• Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

I am not convinced that this will work for arodasi. Is non-commercial the same as non-profit? I think youth oriented access is vital, not sure if this is the same as non-commercial/commercial?

In my experience emerging and young artists that cannot afford software licences still manage to access cracked versions. Remember the days of looking at the cost of outright licenses of the Adobe Mater Collection and then heading straight for LimeWire or The Pirate Bay? Thankfully I grew up and was fortunate enough to be in a place where I could afford a range of software lisences.

An appropriate strategy to get the software in the hands of young users is going to be critical for the sustainability of the enterprise. You don’t want a bunch of aging early adopters being your only market. A functional but stripped down version offered for free might work.

A functional stripped down version would also be useful if it could play fully developed patches (perhaps with a lock on some functionality) that pro users are then able to distribute to clients.

• If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

Freight costs would kill it. Unless you had a network of affiliated agents/distributors that pushed a solution package into local markets. Is that a TroikaTronix franchise empire start-up?

best wishes

bonemap

(arodasi = isadora backwards)

[Kathmandale]

Hello All,

some very good points above. Anyone I double up with on ideas please take this as a blanket acknowledgement.

• What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished

I don't have any wild ideas - there are some good ones above. I think the best are around 'out of the box' examples: having ready made patches that new users could use as a vision-mixer, mapping tool, 'play-these-10-clips-in-order-with-a-crossfade' tool... These could be opened up and explored. I know that I learnt a huge amount from the various example patches years ago but they could definitely do with an update.

• "Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

I like having a license that I own and am happy to contribute for upgrades. I think most users are probably the same. I do get grumpy with companies who sell you a license to own and then change to a subscription (adobe, deli-code, you guys can take a bow). I have become a big fan of QLabs licensing system, you can own it outright, you can rent it by the day and your rentals count towards owning it outright. Personally, when I work on a show using Issy I rarely leave my license on the show, it's on my laptop and stays with me. I get the company to buy their own. In many instances this is fine, but in others they simply can't afford it and I either leave my machine there or they run it in demo mode knowing they can't make changes. I think a rent by the day license would see a huge number of individual artists and smaller companies paying on a show-by-show basis. Often, on the same production that is using a demo version of Issy, they're using a QLab license by the day. They can pay $5 per day for a few nights but not for a license outright. If the account system allowed these 'rentals' to be tracked they could count towards a discount off the full price when people are in a position to pay. I'm not so sure about monthly subscriptions simply because I think more people will be happy to pay if they can just pay when they need it (like QLab) rather than for all the time when they don't.

• Pricing:

I think the following would be good:

Own it: £400-£500

Version Upgrades: £100-£150 ((every two years or so)

Per day: £5-£10

And as I've said above, rentals could count towards a purchase. I think this would be especially useful when considering users around the world who aren't in a position to buy but could contribute on a show by show basis.

• Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

I think the forum is incredible and is usually the only support I need. I think it would be a shame to put it behind a paywall as it's so inclusive. In terms of dedicated support from the team I have two thoughts: 1) If there is a bug in the software then we shouldn't be being charged for finding it. 2) If a user is struggling to make their own hardware work or would like help with their own programming within Issy and want a direct helpline to the team (beyond the extensive support on the forum, knowledge banks etc) then I have no problem with them being charged for that.

• Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

I find this incredibly complex to know where to draw the line. So many of us work across commercial/non-commercial/educational/non-profit/etc that for the conscientious user it becomes a moral mine field. For the unscrupulous it becomes an easy way to pay less than you should be! I'd be happy to see a 'basic' version with limited maximum resolution output and/or other limited features but with the ability to save work. This would be especially good in workshop and education environments. Pricing wise I'd put it at half the full version. I'd keep the free demo (with no save) version as it is.

• If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

I know most people have said no to this but I think it'd be interesting. I guess really how much support you would have to put in would determine if it'd be worth it for you. For the user/buyer it would be about getting a simple solution to the 'what do I need to run this show' question that must come up all the time. The hard part is pitching it to different levels and people not blaming the hardware for not being able to run a complex show when they thought they were buying something more powerful. I'd suggest something like:

1) A 'micro-server' - small enough to hide behind a display screen or inside a set or installation. Gigabyte Brix or Intel NUC kind of size, like ETC's Nomad Puck. Only recommended to run one screen (that is also it's 'desktop') with a couple of layers of video and a HID. Or whatever it's capable of after some testing. Around £500 plus Issy license.

2) A 'touring-server' - 1u rackmount PC with at lest 1 dual-link output or maybe 2, plus a VGA monitor for control. Around £1500 + Issy

3) A 'monster-server' - 4u all singing all dancing powerhouse for large mapping projects and as many outputs as you can get out of a top GPU. £... Whatever it costs for the best machine you could build.

It might be possible to come to an arrangement with a custom PC builder who would take care of the support side for the hardware with you acting as a re-seller having loaded on the software/license and set everything up. They get more custom, you get a reliable source of hardware and take a cut on the re-sale.

Looking forward to seeing how things develop over he next few months.

[JJHP3]

Hi All

I'm a simple guy and I think that the v3 price should be a purchase, not a subscription. In fact, I would seriously consider alternative programs if I must pay by the month. Many of the programs I use charge $ full price for the original purchase, then upgrades are $ full price minus 25% or some percent. Tiers of support seems complicated too.

Just my 2¢

John

[mark]

@JJHP3

Just to be clear to everyone: as I said in my original post, we will not switch to a subscription model but will offer it in addition to the "buy to own" option.

I just wanted to emphasize this because in John's post above (and a couple of others) it seemed like some of you thought we might switch completely to a subscription model. Rest assured, both options will be offered, not one or the other.

Best Wishes,
Mark

P.S. I'm not a personally a fan of subscriptions either, though its clear that it works for some users. I'd always go for the buy to own option myself.

[KosmoPilot]

I use Isa since the beta from 2003. But only for a short time every year. Monthly subscription could be a way for me. But I also like to support your work, so if it is not too expensive (about 120 €), I would pay for a license update. 

Maybe the "Blackmagic Resolve" way could be a good idea: a free software with limited functions. I know that some folks like to try different things to find their way. This could be a way to let them try. 

[KosmoPilot]

I forgot:

a "shop" for readymade workarounds could be an additional way to get some money. 8.99 for a simple vj mixer, 19.99 for kinect setup etc.; starting 800.00 for a personal version of a project. 

I use this software at work for livestreaming stuff, have a look at their way (not at the prices ;-)  mimolive

[knowtheatre]

• What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished

Speaking for myself (though I have a feeling a lot of other users share this sentiment), I have a very special relationship with Isadora that I don't have with other software.  QLab is a tool I sometimes use in my work, but Isadora is my creative outlet.  And I think a large part of that feeling has to do with Mark's "concern for artists and artmaking."  So again, thank you to the Isadora team for the amazing support you've given your user base.

That being said, I think @Fred raises some interesting points about Isadora's niche in the market.  Coming from a theatre background, and especially running a Fringe Festival, QLab is the definite go-to solution.  I hear from a lot of non-tech artists doing Fringe that while they may have heard of Isadora, it's intimidating to them as laypeople.  Suggestions already offered of a highly produced sample patch, showing off some of Izzy's capabilities and possibilities, coupled with a package of a few very basic and often used sample patches, would go a long way toward helping artists who aren't necessarily as tech-savvy learn how to "talk" to Isadora.  I also think having a fully functional demo version, with the ability to save, would be helpful for those first learning the program.  Capping it at a low resolution, only accessing one stage, or perhaps using a watermark on the stages would be a possibility.  

I've no idea why Qlab became the standard for theatre, or Resolume for VJ, etc.  Visibility is key...i.e. tutorial videos, demos, user projects on Youtube, showcasing both the novice and diy users as well as the big-budget, high profile productions.  I'm not sure how to facilitate that, though.  

• What about the yearly and monthly subscription prices? What do you think is fair

I think somewhere in the $10-$15/month sounds about right, with a discount for a yearly subscription.

• "Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

I definitely prefer buy-to-own.  However, I think a rent-to-own option (as opposed to, or in addition to a subscription), including daily rates if possible would be super helpful.  I frequently work in small theatres who may not be comfortable dropping the full purchase price for an unknown-to-them software they may only use for one production. 

• What should the buy to own price for a new license be

The current pricing structure seems reasonable to me and the types of venues I usually work.  I think there's room to increase this number, but if it were to go over $750, I might start getting the stink-eye from those in charge of the budgets.

• Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

I don't think I would necessarily go in for premium support, but I can see how that might be beneficial for some.  I guess it would depend on what that premium support entails...

• Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

I feel like there should be discounts for "non-profit" and "student/educational" licenses, but as others have stated, it's somewhat hazy where to make that distinction.

• If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

This is an interesting idea.  I don't think I would personally use this, but I know of many folks who might.  Again, artists who might not be tech-savvy enough to want to spec out different machines.  The price point would need to be right for these users, though, and I think a tiering option would be imperative.  Maybe this would also be an opportunity for co-branding and sponsorship, as in "Isadora-powered by AMD" or something.  Is this something that big tech companies do?

[Edalia]

Personally I think the buy to own model means I've invested in making Isadora work for me. Isadora is great. don't get me wrong, but if it had been a subscription I think in the early days I probably would have dipped in and out of it, subscribing for a few months at a time. I use adobe all the time for my animation but Isadora in short bursts.

On the other hand having subscription might mean that a lot more people use it - dipping in and out of it. I'm no expert in product pricing though - if it's tricky managing the finances then it's probably worth trying.

[ian]

Hi Mark and all, 

Sorry for taking a few days to respond - just finished a project. Love a lot of the ideas I'm seeing already.

• What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished

A few ideas: I could imagine a) developing ways to support community developed actors / plugins as a way of meeting the needs for some of the unusual, and often very specific features many of us want from time to time. In cases where I've developed a actor for a custom one-off purpose I know I've been reluctant to share it back to the wild because typically its been tested only for a very specific purpose and isn't robust or reliable in any way - and never having time or energy to do that. Perhaps there could be a parallel "isadora foundation" or other non-profit / social enterprise adjunct that helped support community efforts, and also help ease any licensing issues around open source libraries.

b) the gaming development world has some unique licensing models -- for ex. unreal engine (https://www.unrealengine.com/e...) licenses their development tools on a royalty basis of gross revenue. I'm not sure any of us make enough to make this a commercially viable option, but an interesting idea.

c) developing an "implementation partner" / technical assistance provider / consulting program. I could imagine a program where institutional users could (for some predictable fee) readily identify and purchase services from more local technical assistance providers being beneficial to everyone. If that program came with an allowance of priority support for the project I could see that being useful. My experience with doing the occasional consults for this sort of thing is that some type of one-off implementation fee that speeds up the consulting process would be readily paid if part of an package. A couple example projects where this could have been useful - consulting for an educational institution to integrate isadora into their lab and classes and training their IT team on supporting it; helping a museum/gallery/venue install a semi-permanent installation running on isadora, that will then be supported by on-site staff.

d) extending the werkstatt idea to a more places besides berlin.

• "Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

Generally buy to own. But - short term subscription or rental for specific projects is very useful. The current Q-lab daily rental to own model is pretty designer friendly.

• What about the yearly and monthly subscription prices? What do you think is fair

The Max subscription pricing seems pretty affordable, yet hopefully high enough to support development costs - https://cycling74.com/shop

• What should the buy to own price for a new license be

The 400 - 500 range still seems pretty fair.

• Should we offer premium support and charge more for those who receive it? (Or offer a less expensive version that comes with forum-only support?)

An option (perhaps on project basis or annual subscription) I could imagine being very helpful. To be really useful though it'd need to be a very fast response time -- think large venue settings with limited tech time. The big question for me is whether the staffing needed would be able to be supported off the subscription fees. The current forum and ticket based support is one of the big pluses for me.

• Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

Definitely, Definitely, defintely! -- just not to the level of Vectorworks ;)

On the non-commercial side I know I've had many many workshop students on student budgets that would happily pay something for a licence, but can't afford the current cost so find a way to keep using the demo, use someone else's installation or share a license.Some modest student / young artist friendly amount times several hundred has to add up!

• If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

Probably not. At a minimum, I'd want to know there was a local distributor to provide a hot swap unit, and having done a number of hardware customisations for clients -- I think it'd be extremely hard to keep the pricing in any way competitive and handle the level of post-purchase hardware support needed for a professional machine.

I think its great actually that TT is not a media server company with everything locked down. That alone is selling point!

But ---a regularly updated spec sheet of "dream machine configurations we have tested and seen work" could be really helpful for a lot of new users.

[LPmode]

• What would be your wildly unusual/crazy/unexpected means to ensure that Isadora grows and flourished

 I love Isadora but the feature I would consider as the vital for Isadora 3 is reliability.  Make isadora actors multithreaded to distribute the load to address stuttering and isolate each actor processes thread so it does not take the entire program down. Address memory leaks for long running installations. I can see an isadora stutter from a mile. Everytime isadora crashes a memory of my childhood gets erased, its place filled with the anguish of the Isadora disappearing act. That's my crazy wild unusual hope for Isadora 3 I believe will help it recapture the youthful spirit and help it flourish.

• "Buy-to-own" or a subscription? Which do you prefer

 I prefer to own a floating licence that I can manage on which system I want to use it. -qlab/resolume model is solid and user oriented.

 

*What about the yearly and monthly subscription prices? What do you think is fair

Rent to own I think would be a better way to help people pay for Isadora on their own terms for the times they need. I think subscriptions can work against the user if the licence times out in the middle of a run or extends of unnecessary times.

• Should there be a difference in price for commercial and non-commercial use?

The non commercial version should be a free, save capable but with basic options. QLab's main success story is because of the free basic version used by students\designers\organisation in actual productions. Isadora is not that difficult to learn but if you help people use it for their small projects they will learn its powers and easily pay for the more features.

The commercial version can go up in cost to compensate. As a seasoned designer I use it enough to spend $1000 yearly on on upgrading and acquiring the tools I need. I am always keeping an eye out for the next program that can give me a ride to the next level. Make that be Isadora 3.

• If we offered a hardware package, would you be interested to buy it?

I would not be interested in any hardware. I  build our own patches and I build  my own hardware.  Isadora hardware would seem like a misplaced developer resource.

[Videosmith]

@mark

Hi all

apologies if I’m repeating points, but my two pence:

1. I support the goal of sustainable development of izzy and community and people getting paid for your skills and time.

2. I like the current owner model and price - i think paying more would perhaps be prohibitive for me - but I’ve been happy to invest in izzy over the years through buying it and getting upgrades. I like the usb key!

3. I can’t distinguish between commercial / non commercial use (in context of arts practice).

4. Subscription model would be useful in lowering the bar / managing use for projects, esp with outside partners - e.g., just get the museum to budget 3 months izzy license as part of an inst

5. Tiered versions interesting, but I would make it a very BASIC version - key features / actors only

• a) to allow a much more affordable version for starters
• b) justify pricing for a ‘pro’ version (i.e. current version) without alienating ‘pro’ users
• c) simplify the interface to make it more accessible for people starting out (less is more)

6.  EDUCATION - (points 4+5 combined) - institutions and students need a lower threshold for entry.  They are your future user / market.

My graduating students love izzy, but only 1 has been able to persuade his part-time employer to buy it. None can afford it for themselves. For an institution, the 10% discount feels nominal. At Liv John Moores uni, we bought 10 x std licenses (v1.3), but they never got upgraded. At Man Met Uni, we bought 2 x usb licenses, which get well used, and means we effectively have izzy on all machines. But students in my case rarely need more than basic functions, and they’d work with it more if they could all save patches. So an educational subscription model, and / or a ‘basic’ version of izzy would get more buy in from the uni, students and the graduates.

phew!

all the best in any case, and well done

Sam

[GoddessMoon2017]

@mark I really love using Isadora.  I have two major obstacles. One is the pricing. As an single artist I can't afford the 500.00 license fee. The free download is good, but limiting since it can't be saved. I think a monthly subscription would make Isadora much more accessible and affordable. The second thing is I think there needs to be more tutorials that shows the patches and how you actually get there. I would love to teach Isadora to my students, but I need to learn more about how to use the program. The last thing I am wondering is if Isadora new version will better integrate and work with 3D or VR programs. I am really excited to see what the new version of Isadora will bring. 

.

[Videosmith]

@goddessmoon2017 I always point my students to Mark's video tutorials on Youtube. I also have some worksheets I'm happy to share (attached). Any other educational resources out there? It would be good to develop them further. 

ISADORA WORKSHEET 2.1 - FX.pdf
ISADORA WORKSHEET 1.1 - BASICS.pdf
izz_worksheet_old_03_structure.pdf
izz_worksheet_old_02_camera.pdf
izz_worksheet_old_01_basics.pdf

[RIL]

@videosmith just in case you are interested and for the rest to know there are video tutorials in spanish. Maybe you have students of the Latin community that may be interested. The Isadora Latin Network is working in that direction (educational among others)

Here the link

Best,

Maxi Wille