[LOGGED] User actor management

[Fred]

I would like to be able to right click on a user actor and say make unique, so it is no longer part of a save and update all group. Or if I have a user actor and I can copy and when I paste it I can paste and hold shift and it will paste a unique group

Also a way to highlight all user actors that are grouped (ie ones that will update if I select update all on another instance) - ideally using an ID that is displayed, and better if it is connected to a colour. Sometimes I have 2 groups of actors that are all based on the same thing but are in different groups, so half of them may update together and the other half may update together.

Also if the instanced groups had names that could be joined and disjoined, so something like I have 20 user actors (2 sets that update together and I want to move one from one group to another, I could right click and swap it (if it was made from the same prototype.

In general the user actors are one of the most powerful features of Isadora but we don't get any feedback on what is going on once we make that fateful decision to save and update all or to make a new instance.

Groups with user selectable names and colours would be ideal.

[Woland]

You can already do all of this, it's just about keeping it organized as you program.

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@fred said:

I would like to be able to right click on a user actor and say make unique, so it is no longer part of a save and update all group. 

 You can convert it to a Macro if you don't want it to update with any other User Actors.

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@Fred said:

I have a user actor and I can copy and when I paste it I can paste and hold shift and it will paste a unique group... Also a way to highlight all user actors that are grouped (ie ones that will update if I select update all on another instance) - ideally using an ID that is displayed, and better if it is connected to a colour... Groups with user selectable names and colours would be ideal.

The functions already exist to do this. If you want things labelled, searchable, and color-coded, you just have to make sure that you label and color-code them. 

1. Copy + paste your original User Actor named "#v1 [User Actor Name]"
2. Rename it "#v2 [User Actor Name]"
3. Go inside the User Actor and move any actor.
4. Go to close the User Actor.
5. Choose to make it a new instance instead of save an update all.
6. Right-Click on the User Actor and Save the User Actor to the Document Toolbox and the Global Toolbox. (Now you can access it from the User Actors Toolbin when you want to place another one and can use it in other projects)
7. Boom, you can now copy and paste it and know which group it belongs to, plus the #v1 and #v2 at the beginning makes them searchable using the hashtag function at the bottom right of the Scene Editor. ("#v1" and "#v2" are arbitrary markers, you could get more descriptive if you wanted to, like "#StageLeftProj", "#StageRightProj", etc.)
8. If you want colors, you can make sure to use the same colored Background actor behind matching instances of your User Actors. This actor was added for the explicit purpose of color-coding Isadora Patches.

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@Fred said:

Also if the instanced groups had names that could be joined and disjoined, so something like I have 20 user actors (2 sets that update together and I want to move one from one group to another, I could right click and swap it (if it was made from the same prototype).

Adding a new feature like this would be a big change that could lead to a lot of user confusion. How would we define "the same prototype"? Unless everything inside the guts of the user actor and the User inputs and outputs matched, it's nearly impossible to tell the program how to reconnect the surrounding actors to the User Actor you're replacing. If they have to be identical anyway, there's no reason to not just do it the way I detailed above and just keep your User Actors well-labelled to distinguish between groups rather than adding a new feature.

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@Fred said:

Sometimes I have 2 groups of actors that are all based on the same thing but are in different groups, so half of them may update together and the other half may update together... we don't get any feedback on what is going on once we make that fateful decision to save and update all or to make a new instance.

Again, if you keep your User Actors well-labelled, this ceases to be an issue. You also have the option to color-code them if you want to.

[Fred]

@woland

Thanks for your reply, I am aware of the workarounds that kind of do this, but to be honest they are pretty lacking and tools for labelling is not what this feature request is about, it is about getting real information from the software. Labels have many uses and some more needed than this.

@woland said:

1. Copy + paste your original User Actor named "#v1 [User Actor Name]"2. Rename it "#v2 [User Actor Name]"3. Go inside the User Actor and move any actor.4. Go to close the User Actor.5. Choose to make it a new instance instead of save an update all.6. Right-Click on the User Actor and Save the User Actor to the Document Toolbox and the Global Toolbox. (Now you can access it from the User Actors Toolbin when you want to place another one and can use it in other projects)7. Boom, you can now copy and paste it and know which group it belongs to, plus the #v1 and #v2 at the beginning makes them searchable using the hashtag function at the bottom right of the Scene Editor. ("#v1" and "#v2" are arbitrary markers, you could get more descriptive if you wanted to, like "#StageLeftProj", "#StageRightProj", etc.)8. If you want colors, you can make sure to use the same coloured Background actor behind matching instances of your User Actors. This actor was added for the explicit purpose of color-coding Isadora Patches.

This is pretty far off from what I was requesting, for starters when I make a new instance of an actor it renames it with copy at the end, I then rename it to what I want, quite often this is the actors function in the patch, so the unique name is kind of gone - If I made a user actor and it said what do you want to call this and made a label that was displayed on all the linked versions of that user actor then sure, but it doesn't and I can choose between having a name that reflects a function or one that reflects its place in object hierarchy but not both in separate places. The both thing is important. The colour coding things or naming thing is all fine, but unlike computers humans make mistakes, so having the computer tell me - all the user actors with a "ua1" label, or light pink stripe or whatever it may be, are all connected together and will all change when you change one of them is what I am asking for, not tools for labelling because these are easy to miss or make a mistake on and require quite a few steps as you listed above, and we are working with a computer here, so lets get it to do all the book keeping that we can. Specifically this request is for the strict hierarchy and relationships that Isadora has about user actors to be shown in the gui, not an option for me to add some colours or labels. Isadora inherently knows which actors are linked (because it updates all those that are) so I am asking for that information that is already there to be visible - for a start.

 

@woland said:

Adding a new feature like this would be a big change that could lead to a lot of user confusion. How would we define "the same prototype"? Unless everything inside the guts of the user actor and the User inputs and outputs matched, it's nearly impossible to tell the program how to reconnect the surrounding actors to the User Actor you're replacing. If they have to be identical anyway, there's no reason to not just do it the way I detailed above and just keep your User Actors well-labelled to distinguish between groups rather than adding a new feature

 I think you miss-understood this part, lets say you have a user actor that is copied from a prototype, but made a new instance you do some stuff outside, but not inside, no changes from the prototype, it is now just not linked to other user actors, now I want to make it back to part of the group so that it will follow changes I make to the instances that are linked together. There is no reconnecting or disconnecting involved, again just getting more access to some of the data that is already in use inside Isadora. This is nothing to do with labelling, it is a request for higher functionality in managing user actor hierarchies and relationships.

[Woland]

@fred said:

when I make a new instance of an actor it renames it with copy at the end, I then rename it to what I want, quite often this is the actors function in the patch, so the unique name is kind of gone

@Fred said:

Sometimes I have 2 groups of actors that are all based on the same thing but are in different groups, so half of them may update together and the other half may update together.

But you *can* give it a unique name with a preface or a suffix and all the User Actors from that same branch then share that unique name when you paste/place new ones. The prefix/suffix allows you to tell which "group" it belongs to. Everything named "SL - Projector" will update together and everything named "SR - Projector" will update together, the computer keeps them named the same thing that you tell it to and the name *is* the indicator that tells you which User Actor is which, even if they're similar in function. Are you making new instances of similar/identical user actors and then giving them identical names so you can't tell them apart? I'm not sure I understand.

[Fred]

@woland again, the feature request was for built in programatic retrieval of user actor hierarchy and relationships, I am well aware you can rename actors and I do give them names to reflect their relationship and position, but that could also be anything. It would be much better if Isadora would show this relationship automatically, again, no room for errors, easy to see at a glance WITHOUT me having to do a extra steps when all this information is available at runtime.

Further, the request was for some further exposure and manipulation of those relationships, like grouping and ungrouping user actors that had not been modified inside. Nothing to do with the ability to rename and make coloured backgrounds for user actors.

[Woland]

Ah, I'm being thick. It took me a bit to understand your use-case wherein sometimes User Actors might have different names (because of position/function) but that you'd still want them to be part of the same "group" and update together (or ones with matching names being part of different groups and not updating together). I can definitely see how what you're talking about doesn't currently exist and could be helpful. 

(To be transparent, even though I'd personally love it now that I understand what you're saying, it's a very power-user-centric feature request so it may end up lower on the list than other feature requests that would affect a larger percent of our userbase. Like I said, I love the idea though.)