[ANSWERED] Can't change displays in a blended stage + HAP movies lagging and seem to put bigger loads to PC

[ozfetis]

Hello, I need to set up a mapping project for an exhibition in istanbul but i'm having some last minute problems -this is my first public attempt with Isadora :) 

My first question is related with replacing / changing displays: 

screenshot

We have a 2-stage set up with a total of 3 displays (plus the main screen, so there are 4 displays connected). Main stage ended up being a 3095x1200 sized beautiful blend of 2 displays (with two identical projectors), and the other one is a one-display stage of 1280x800. As you can see from the picture attached, some key stoning was needed to to blend the main stage. While all this seemed working just fine, I wanted to make sure the stage settings were there to stay every time the computer got restarted, and to my surprise, after a restart, while the edge blend and key stoning settings were kept in the .izz file, because the order of the displays connected to the computer changed, the setting did not work. I do recall in one of guru sessions Mark talking about the importance of connecting all the projectors and turning them on before turning on the computer as this was crucial for the order of the displays to be the same after every restart. So I guess I did not pay attention to that. But because it is a rather complicated and long process, -and I worry that people will think working with Isadora is too much of a pain since I have already spent too many hours in the gallery for this set up while boasting Isadora- I want to be able to change the displays in stage setup window without repeating the blending stage on the ground. But for some reason, when I pick a different display for an already assigned display, Isadora refuses my pick and goes back to the original display setting. While writing this thread (hence I haven't tried this with the actual machine set up in the gallery yet and dunno if this is an actual solution) I discovered that if I Ctrl+Z after Isadora ignore my new display pick from the scroll menu, I can update the display. Is this how one can change an already assigned display with a new one, or is this some kind of a bug? 

My second question is (oma sorry for these long threads):

I use a rather good Macbookpro for work, so whatever patch I create in Isadora, they seem to work smoothly. However for the exhibition, the computer I need this patch to work with is a PC with 16gb RAM, a radeon rx 580 8gb + an intel i5 core (can't remember the exact specifications). The patch I am working with does not exceed the 6% load or drop below 250 CYC with the mac, but with the windows, load does not seem to drop below 30% and CYC drops to almost 100. As I have read about the HAP being the most efficient codec to use with Isadora, I asked the person who is producing videos to export them using HAP. But either HAP movies failed to load in the Windows-machine or their playback lagged too much. Also, with HAP, a minute long video ended up being around 700mb. While the max number of videos playing simultaneously would be 6 (can't really tell if this is too many), we have a pool of almost 100 videos from which sets of 2-6 videos will be picked randomly, so all video files needed for the patch to run will end up using 100gb of hard drive. While MP4 versions of the same videos were only around 30 mb, had no playback issues, and also the resolution of HAP videos compared to MP4 are visibly much poorer. What can we be doing wrong, or are we missing an important step / aspect while using HAP?  

any help is much appreciated, with love, emre

[mark_m]

@ozfetis said:

I wanted to make sure the stage settings were there to stay every time the computer got restarted, and to my surprise, after a restart, while the edge blend and key stoning settings were kept in the .izz file, because the order of the displays connected to the computer changed, the setting did not work

 Yes, I'm afraid this happens with Windows after you restart the computer.
I have commented on this several times, and there does not seem to be a way to make consistent the displays as enumberated by Windows and the displays as enumberated by Isadora.
Please see these threads:
https://community.troikatronix...
and
https://community.troikatronix...

@mark concludes by saying "

I will add that it is frustrating for me that at 30+ years into the development of the personal computer, we can't reliably depend on the monitor order and that the operating system gives little aid in managing this."

SO you may have to re-assign each stage to each display each time you start Isadora / restart the computer even if you follow Mark's advice from the Guru session about turning on all the displays before you turn on the computer.

I'm not sure about how to solve the issue you're having about not being able to reset the stages to match the projectors: maybe someone else can jump in here. I don't have any other displays connected right now to be able to check it!

[Juriaan]

@ozfetis

Hi there Emre!

To answer your questions to the best of my knowledge;

Display issue

Sadly I can't open your screenshot. The thing with Windows as @mark_m already described is that the order of displays / how you connect them to your PC is important. If needed you can change this by going to Configuration > Displays > Identify. That will showcase to you what screen is connected and what number it has.

The fact that you have two identical projectors / and another display is great. Basically what we do is we pair the two Projectors together (technical talk; but that makes it one OpenGL canvas for Isadora, the other smaller display will be the 2nd OpenGL display. For more information see our KB article. https://support.troikatronix.c...

I would personally do it like the following;

1. Connect all your screens/projectors (Do not open Isadora just yet)
2. Set your main Display (if you have any, like your Control screen as 'Display 1' / Primary display)
3. Next, we set either the Projectors or the separate Display as our next screen. The Primary Display is not an OpenGL context at default, so it doesn't really matter.
4. Let's say we do our Projectors next. Display 2 / Display 3. (Just drag them around)
5. Put your display as Display 4.
6. Press Identity to verify that everything works as intended.
7. Save / Quit the configuration window.
8. Open up Isadora. Set your Blended stage to Display 2 / Display 3.
9. Set your other stage to Display 4.
10. Quit the Stage Setup
11. Go to Output > Show Alignment grid
12. Verify that all Stages are set to the correct display.
13. Turn off your Alignment grid
14. And turn on your content!

When you enter the space now it goes as follows;

• Turn on your Primary monitor if you have one
• Turn on your PC
• Turn on your Projectors
• Wait until Projectors turned on / they warmed up
• Turn on your other display.

That way the Displays will successfully get the right number/display number.

HAP Codec

Your system seems to be fine for this workload. HAP has many different flavours, for example, you can wrap it inside a .MOV or an .AVI container. Windows most likely will like .AVI containers more than .MOV. After that, we can choose or we need an Alpha Channel. If we don't need a dedicated alpha channel then please also do not encode with an ALPHA channel, instead, go for a HAP1 Codec (Alpha is HAP5)

Your files are most likely HAPQ in an .MOV container with Alpha channels. If you are using any sound in your material then please make sure that those are also properly converted / not set to the quality that you use for CDs / record labels ;)

If you have any files that you can share that are not playing/lagging then we would happily give you some pointers. You can send us your files by creating a new ticket in our ticket system.

[DusX]

@juriaan has provided you some great advice. I can only add a few things.

1. in my experience not all Displays communicate to the system at the same speed on every startup (I believe this has to do with some internal back and forth between the display and the OS). This means that they will be seen by the OS in a different order sometimes unless the connections are manually managed. This does not always mean turning on/off the unit, since some displays are 'seen'  but not listed when set to off (you can see this by how the system resets when you connect a new display, but doesn't reset when you turn On a display). It may be most effective to physically plug/unplug the devices (I do this from the computer directly. EG: displayport, hdmi port)

2. Isadora will list the Primary display as #1, then count through the remaining displays as they are provided by the system. You can control the Primary display in the Windows Display Setup (or video driver control panel) and the order of the remaining displays by rearranging them in these tools as well.
Note: the numbering will not match between Isadoras' stage setup and the OS setup, but you can find a configuration that is repeatable. (taking a screen shot of the config can be helpful)

This issue is a high priority issue for us, and I know Mark has some ideas (experimental) on how to address this. Unfortunately this development work has not yet made it into a build. 

[Woland]

@ozfetis said:

But for some reason, when I pick a different display for an already assigned display, Isadora refuses my pick and goes back to the original display setting. While writing this thread (hence I haven't tried this with the actual machine set up in the gallery yet and dunno if this is an actual solution) I discovered that if I Ctrl+Z after Isadora ignore my new display pick from the scroll menu, I can update the display. Is this how one can change an already assigned display with a new one, or is this some kind of a bug? 

It's a bug that we found and squashed recently. If you want to work with the beta that has this fix, open a support ticket and I'll get you into the beta program ASAP.

Best wishes,

L Wilson-Spiro 

[Juriaan]

Hi there @ozfetis, 

Would love to hear how it went.

- Juriaan

[ozfetis]

@juriaan hello, sorry for the late reply :) 

so far, as long as I don't mess with the ports each display is connected to the pc

1. turning on every display before the pc,
2. starting the computer,
3. opening the izzy file 

helped with keeping the stage setup with right displays assigned for each stage. Turning on the computer first and then projectors messes up with the display order and hence the stage settings, however once I restart everything and follow the above 3 steps in the right order, things do go back to the way I want them to be.

@woland, yes, sure I will open a support ticket, thanks! but the ctrl+z trick works too. 

lastly, about the hap codec: right now we are working with mp4 files since Isadora seems to be working just fine. Hopefully things will continue running smoothly as the number of the videos increase, if not, I will look deeper into this, many thnx for the tips! 

 emre