Isadora Ouput Not Matching Projector Test Pattern

wwachalovsky

Hi ya'll,

I have a head scratcher (for me). I am doing a (2) projector blend and am coming across an odd thing. I am doing as much correction in the projectors proper and using their test pattern am pretty lined up between the two projectors ( so that ostensibly I only have to do the blend in Isadora) but as soon as I switch over to working on the Stage Setup and using the alignment grid, the workable space on one projector is distinctly smaller than the expressed working space in the test pattern. It seems like I might be missing a set up point BUT I can't find anything. My projectors are hung at the same distance from the screen (maybe with an inch or 1.5" disparity).

I am running Isadora 4 (super excited about the new program!), Windows 10, Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 and am using the two HDMI ports for the projectors going into a Blackmagic HDMI to SDI adapter with HD-SDI cables and going directly into the SDI port on the projector. (Oh and the projectors are the same model - Panasonic DZ870U with .8 lens)

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Skulpture

@wwachalovsky Any chance you could take a screen shot of the windows and outputs you are seeing please?

mark_m

@wwachalovsky

In the Windows display setup, check that the two projectors have the same resolution. It's possible that the projector's EDID gets lost in the HDMI / SDI translation.
Are you using standard screen resolutions? I've been caught out before by SDI's narrower range of acceptable resolutions.

jandraka

@wwachalovsky

Hi,

With Blackmagic converters (I have used microconverters) the resolution you can choose on the computer is 1080p. You cannot choose the native resolution of the projector, which is 1920x1200. When you launch the test pattern of the projector, the image is somewhat larger than the one you send from Isadora.
Maybe the same thing is happening.
Best

Javi

cambrucedavis

@wwachalovsky

I would suggest looking at the projector settings. Check if the keystoning settings are similar or if the set aspect is matched. One some versions of that series of Panasonic projector will show the test pattern of the projector at full raster, but when going to a signal it will apply all of the keystoning and any digital manipulations on the output.

Specifically check in the Position menu: Aspect, Zoom, and keystoning.

Hope that helps...

wwachalovsky

@skulpture yeah I definitely can. I'll do it as soon as I'm in the theater

wwachalovsky

@mark_m

I using a standard display settings but I will double check!

wwachalovsky

@cambrucedavis

This is also very helpful. I'll check these settings when I'm in the theater!

wwachalovsky

@jandraka thank you. Yeah that's definitely part of it. I'll check it out!

Thank you!

BvG73

@wwachalovsky This is why I always prefer using the actual media player, computer, or server output on the projector for making in-projector adjustments. While the built-in test patterns are excellent for reference, the actual content can introduce additional variables. Did you reset both projectors to their factory settings before starting the setup?

wwachalovsky

@cambrucedavis

It was the aspect ratio in the projectors! They were different! Thank you for the suggestion

wwachalovsky

@bvg73

Yeah that's definitely a good takeaway. Thank you!

DillTheKraut

@wwachalovsky

there are several things that might be wrong. Below you'll find some details. If those are to long: here my quick guess:
projector settings. Simple solution: reset all settings.

The long version:

First of all, without wanting to be a nitpicker, short sentence about the Blackmagic converters/ SDI converters in general (not adapters! Converters are actively changing/converting a signal, while adapters just passing the same signal to a different physical connector).

SDI is a professional broadcast signal. It is limited to keep connections as simple and stable as possible. That means SDI by nature only support (mostly) 16:9 standard aspects. 720p, 1080p, UHD, 4k, ect. Most converters only convert the same format, e.g. 1080p HDMI to 1080p SDI.
1200p (1920 x 1200) would not work at all, resulting in black picture. Even most small scalers (converters which can actively manipulate the picture to a certain degree) wouldn't accept a different aspect but only scale up or down the same.

@mark.m The projectors EDID is definitely going to be lost to the computer, as the SDI converters always only present there own EDID list to it at their HDMI site. SDI doesn't support EDID at all! You always have to know, which resolutions the end device supports, which is kind of easy, as SDI only supports certain resolutions (see above).

So knowing this, the Blackmagics are probably not the issue here, as you would not get any signal at all. But can only say for sure, when you tell the exact type of converter (I guess you are going with the micro 3g or 12g?)

The most probable reason for your issues might be in the projectors settings. But to rule out the computer output for sure, you could just exchange the SDI cable at the projectors ends with each other. As the converters are the devices recognized by the computer, this should not change anything at the output itself. If the issue changes from one projector to the other with the cables, it would be the output. If it stays, It's the projectors.

I guess @jandraka is probably kind of right anyway.
Most big panasonics are showing the exact test pattern including the warp and keystone.
(From the manual: Settings of position, size, and other factors will not be reflected in test patterns.)

BUT this might be bound to a specific setting, called 'screen setting'. Which isn't the same as the 'Aspect setting'.
'Screen setting' actually sets the aspect mode for the whole projector, limiting every input to this aspect, while 'aspect' sets it for the input processing BASED on the 'screen setting'. To make it even more confusing, these settings are on different menu levels. You'll find 'screen settings' under 'Display Options' and the 'aspect' under 'Position'.
In Position menu, there are some more settings, which can influence the pictures size and aspect, like zoom, shift (not the physical lens shift, but a digital). Those are the ones mentioned above, regarding the test patterns. Those settings might be in connection with the 'screen settings' as well.

Conclusion: the computers resolution might be 1080p (16:9), but as the projector can do 1200p (19:10), these settings are meant to correct the aspect, if the projector cannot distinguish it automatically. This might blow up the picture in the vertical pane, filling all 1200 pixels instead of only the 1080px supposed to. Or the other way around. There is one specific test pattern, which shows 16:9/4:3 frames in their 'native' state (incl. keystone and warping). You can use this, to compare it with the input signal.

One more thing. There is this menu called 'signal list'. The projector can save the signal settings in some way. I actually don't get the whole picture of this, but it somehow seems to save a bunch of picture settings in memory banks, associated to the inputs. Anyway, I recognized this sometimes results in wrong input signal interpretation. Deleting the signal for a certain input, sometimes helps.

DillTheKraut

@BvG73

I always go these steps:
1. Using the internal test pattern without any picture manipulation, to have the projectors full potential fit to the screen.
2. Check if the signals picture is coming as expected. If not, check why.
3. Deciding if any adjustments are better be done in the projector or the software.