Live HD Inputs & Configuration for HD
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Has anyone gone the Tricaster route? Seems like it would take a ton of weight off of the CPU and is a pretty flexible solution. Would love to see it run through Thunderbolt instead of USB though... Would work with a less powerful computer, so maybe the cost would even out?
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We have a tricaster at work. And then it died.... Pointless story. Sorry!
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After looking through tons of different options, I think we will likely go this route:
**Each Channel = Camera --> Composite RGB or HDMI --> **[Blackmagic Intensity](http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/models/) **--> Thunderbolt or USB 3.0 --> Computer --> IZZY --> Whatever Output**This is the cheapest and I think the simplest option post-cost-of-Machines and cameras. Link 1-4 computers together that all have a one or two cameras plugged in to an Intensity PCIe card or hub. Cost is <$250.00 and on a faster machine you could probably have two of these hubs inputing four channels... -
I am sure the thunderbolt capture device you linked to will only allow for one active input at once, you get to choose the format (SDI, HDMI, component). The second SDI is for taking in 2K material with a dual link SDI connection.
As for using 2 of these on a machine you will only get one on a mac mini as these devices do not have a thunderbolt pass through so they will have to be the last thing in your thunderbolt chain. Unless you go with the quad and use sdi you will be limited to one input per machine. I have heard stories of people with custom rigs using more than one blackmagic card but this is not supported and probably not worth the risk unless you are ready for some serious testing. Also dealing with multiple live HD inputs is not an easy task for any computer so make sure if you want to try you can test it out before you buy, it may well not be up to what you want it to do.The tricaster is a pretty amazing machine but it will not work as you want, it is more of a mixer and production system replacement, getting 4 cameras to 4 screens will not really be possible as it uses virtual inputs and outputs. However if there was money for it I would always prefer a dedicated hardware solution. The blackmagi ATEM 2me will come closer, it has 6 SDI aux outputs along with the much more flexible main output. It may be worth looking into. I use the 1me and it is an amazing unit.Fred -
What if you are working with a device that has more than one Thunderbolt input? ;)
The plan would be to test Performance with 1 live HD capture and go to town with it -- if it works out well -- then buy a second interface.The ATEM looks great but you'd still need a capture device for it to talk to Izzy ... unless you go USB 3.0 but that has its own set of limitations. Right? -
Yes, the ATEM could be a hardware only solution, it will allow you to feed to beamers but with little or no manipulation except for on the main output. I have only one PC with USB3 and have not had any luck getting the USB3 in, although apparently it will show up as a decklink capture device and may be available to other programs, my issue is I often run the unit from a mac and the firmware is a different level to the one I need for the PC.
If you are using a mac with 2 thunderbolt ports you may or may not get 2 inputs working, however unless you have the latest macbook pro retina (that has 2 thunderbolt ports and an HDMI port) you will not have any way to connect to a beamer if you use both thunderbolt ports. Again, like using multiple blackmagic capture cards it may work but it is not a supported configuration.Although the newest macbook pros do have USB3 blackmagic USB3 products are still windows 7 only, and they are very picky about their motherboards and controllers,"USB 3.0\. Requires an x58 based motherboard with onboard USB 3.0, or a USB 3.0 PCI Express card and an x58 or P55 series motherboard. "Anyway, if you start with a single blackmagic capture unit you will for sure be impressed with the results, getting your four output setup will be the net challenge, even though it is more expensive, sticking to supported configurations will make your life easier and leave more power in your system.Out of curiosity what beamers or screens are you using?Fred -
I will be testing all sorts of configs but, yes, one of them will be the MBPr.
I can also output via the HDMI or get a USB3 to DVI adapter (anyone had success with those?)-- but right now I'm hoping to just push the FX and inputs to the limit and figure out how to output as possible.Starting with a 1x1 config is a good starting to point. It might be good to input all feeds via a MBPr and output through MPs, for example.Some beamers we're working with: Sanyo XF-46N, Barco CLM-HD8, BenQ MP776ST some random Canon and Mistus as well as some LCDs (3D and reg HD).Right now we are trying to see "what's possible" with HD technology integrated into Isadora -- from single feed FX to 3 live feeds in 3D across 6 projectors! Experimentation! -
Let us know how you go. BTW only the barco beamer is actually HD, the Sanyo and the BenQ are 1024x768 native, there is little point driving these over their native resolution, it can actually give worse results and you will not get any better quality. Even if you chose to run SD inputs, using the blackmagic gear with either HDMI or SDI will give you a very impressive image even over a large projection area, as well as giving you a fair bit more power left over in your system.
Out of curiosity what is the "MP" part of this"It might be good to input all feeds via a MBPr and output through MPs" ? -
Yeah man! The HD is testing also for our HD LCD TVs and is for the future! So even though rez doesn't matter on most of our beamers (@ 1024) testing it a higher rez on our LCDs is important for us.
One thing we are looking at developing is an Izzy station with live HD cameras and a HD TV rotated 90 degrees. A 'mirror' interactive installation on a mac mini if only one output, but might be doing multiple mirrors -- so trying to figure out what's the best way to do it. One Mac Pro with a quad card and max'd ram and SSDs or a Master and some slaves. Or 1-to-1 chained over LAN. It seems like HD is a new frontier for Izzy so it seems we need to try alllllll the options and the MBPr as the soul machine or the Master machine seems like a good starting point.MP stands for Mac Pro ! ! -
I'm in the process of doing some testing this week.
Canon T3iBlackmagic Intensity ExtremeThunderbolt Display + 2.5 Ghz i5 Mac Mini (base stock model)BeamerIsadora picks up a full 1080p image from the T3i + Intensity. The image quality is _fantastic_ and I'm holding a steady 28-30 fps. However, it's covered with focus boxes and details, which you have to crop out.The _eventual_ plan is to build around a 2.7 Ghz 16 GB rMPB, capturing from a Blackmagic Cinema Camera (a colleague of mine has one on order -- can't wait to test it!). I'm wondering if a triplehead will accept a HDMI=>DVI signal from the reMPB?I'm working in the space until Friday, any suggestions as to things I should be watching out for or trying? I'm a *relative* newbie with Izzy, so I'm not sure if I might have mucked up the settings and I'm somehow getting away with murder here: for some reason 1080p video pre-recorded on the T3i imported into Isadora and played through the Movie Player stutters along at 10 fps... -
@mc_monte -- dude been wondering about going from a D-SLR --> Intensity --> Izzy. Glad to hear it works. Wondering about getting rid of those boxes... you can't remove them with the display button on the T3i? Did you need to run EOS Utility to grab the video? Alternatively, you may be able to remove them with Magic Lantern -- an add-on to the Canon firmware. It isn't officially supported, so be warned, BUT it's supposed to be great. Removes the time limit per recording, for example. Triplehead --- you want to input through the HDMI from a camera and output through the 3H2G?1080p footage -- if you're just running that it should be fine (esp. w/ no fx). Make sure you're using photo-jpeg! See what the frame rate is when you run it in quicktime (using an FPS monitor like atMonitor) whatever it tells you there, sans effects and with photo-jpeg, should run the same FPS in Izzy. If it doesn't -- you've probably got a messed up pref (or a bad GPU / low RAM)! Good luck.
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You can remove the information, but the white, rectangular focus box stays no matter what. However, the T3i's controls let you move the position of the focus box, so you can stuff it into the corner of the frame (as opposed to having it sitting in the middle of the shot). This way you can easily use the Crop actor to clip it out in Isadora (obviously, you lose part of the image though -- you're basically reduced to 720p if you do this). I did not need to use EOS utility -- the Intensity just sees the video input from the HDMI output on the T3i. I'm aware of Magic Lantern, but hesitant -- from what I understand it will cause a crop of the footage anyways, so my workaround seems to fit the bill fine for now. Beyond that, it was pretty much plug & play after I installed the Blackmagic drivers.
Regarding the Triplehead, I'm wondering if you can do this:Retine MacBook Pro (ultimate configuration): HDMI port => Triplehead => Beamer #1, Beamer #2, Beamer #3Doing so would leave both the Thunderbolt ports open for additional displays or capture devices.As for my footage, I'll fiddle with it in the morning. I will try running the footage into photoJPEG and see what happens. My mini isn't particularly powerful, but it's a temporary machine. -
I see no reason why a 3H2G wouldn't work! I'm assuming that a standard edition 3H2G can go HDMI port out --> HDMI --> VGA adapter --> Triplehead --> Beamer x 3. I just got the MBPr today and am planning to test it out within the next day or so. I'll let you know how it goes here!
Good luck getting Izzy to up the FPS! Should work once you encode -- otherwise something else is probably going on. -
HDMI has no analogue information, the HDMI to VGA adaptor will not work, you will have to use a thunderbolt port. Also HDMI is a video standard, I would be very surprised if it lets you get anything above 1920x1080, but let us know how you go. Magic lantern is a great upgrade and works a treat, well worth it, if you dont like it just boot without the magic lantern card in. Generally the live output of the cheaper DSLRs is pretty low resolution, it is always cut down and scaled.
I have been using the canon HV series of cameras, they are pretty ood quality and very cheap and reliable. You get reasonable control and manual settings and a live low latency full frame HDMI out.Fred -
Don't be afraid of the Magic Lantern! It works really well, and allows very detailed control over all settings, and is super easy to bypass, and despite the official warnings, there aren't any reports of it damaging anybody's camera who weren't damaging it in some other way (leaving it on for hours and hours... with the auto-off disabled)
But is summarily gets rid of that foolish white square. -
@Ipearse my only colleague who tried it ended up with a fried SDHC card. I want to try it, as well, but am worried about just that! Anyone else have that experience?
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Also curious about Latency w/ live HD 1x1 in Izzy. What have people experienced?
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Hi,
I think latency would change quite a lot depending on the hardware used for capture.It's how it goes for SD so...Mehdi -
Fried SDHC card? Wow. We use it in the film department of the university I work at on 10+ cameras, and nobody has ever had that problem. No problems at all, in fact, and these are students using them...
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Live 720 P is hovering at about 1/8 second latency with 0-6 FX -- setup is real nice. Next up is to try w/ Blackmagic and SDI.
@lpearse -- good to hear you've had such success with it! I'll let my buddy know that he may be making some rookie mistakes... definitely makes me want to try it myself!
