Max/MSP compared to Isadora

[Juriaan]

Hi there,

I use them combined quite a lot, and that is quite easy to answer really why I do so. Max MSP has there root in Audio, basically everthing that has to do with Audio can be anaylsed / created with the program and has proper support for Audio Hardware (ASIO is a big one), Isadora doesn't has his roots in Audio and you can feel that in every aspect of the program. Sure, there are some basic functionalities that are needed to perform and MIDI has been done quite properly in Isadora. Isadora is a Data / Image program mostly and I use it mainly as Main show controller / Logic of the installation. Max MSP / Abelton is responible for the audio experience / incoming microphones. I never touched Jitter because Isadora is capable of doing the image work for me and I rather have all the Images that are created in a single program (Not really that interested in creating Images using Jitter and send them to Isadora using something like Syphon / Spout / NDI)

I connect the two programs together using OSC (OpenSoundControl) or MIDI (Using an Virtual MIDI port)

[_grzegorz_]

I use both, Isadora and Max, depending from application. Isadora is easier more intuitive and quicker for me. I use Max for projects where I can not use my computer or client have no Isadora and new licence cost is an issue. I create a patch in Max with a front end and export it as a application which can be run as a stand alone with just Max runtime without an additional licence.

[Juriaan]

@_grzegorz_ 

Does the client needs edit permissions ? You can just create the patch for them and then use it without the need for a License ?

[_grzegorz_]

you can not interfere or edit patch, but you can have front end with sliders, pots, buttons all sorts of manipulators and displays which allows to control the patch

[Woland]

@_grzegorz_

You can lock an Isadora Patch with a password so that it cannot be edited, and even lock it so that they can only see the Control Panel

[_grzegorz_]

It looks like there is misunderstanding. I don't need to lock a patch, what I meant was that Max can generate standalone application which you can run on an other machines without Max with licence, all you need is runtime, which you can download free from Max website. The standalone application runs and does a job but can not be edited, but you still can have access to results and can change various parameters via frontend of app i.e panel with menus, buttons etc, which you build in Max. I hope it make sense.

[Woland]

@_grzegorz_

Oh, that's neat!

[DusX]

@_grzegorz_

You really can do much the same thing with Isadora, just by installing the application without registration (in Demo Mode). Demo Mode is a full runtime.
Of course you can create a control panel for the user, and even allow eternal configuration. ( I load an external text file to allow user based configuration).

[_grzegorz_]

I didn't thought about demo mode to be honest. Very nice idea! Thank you. The only thing is that in demo you can not save i.e video mapping settings, right? 

[msanii]

@_grzegorz_

I've never used Max but I suppose the difference in this particular aspect is that with Isadora one gives the complete project locked or open (with control panel if need be), where as with Max one gives a separate application that doesn't have the 'brains' but functions as intended in Max runtime?

[Woland]

@_grzegorz_ said:

The only thing is that in demo you can not save i.e video mapping settings, right? 

 If you publish the Izzymap Outputs and then use an external file to set the positions you can save your mapping in demo mode (like DusX said)

[msanii]

@woland

Slightly different question but I'm often having to manually copy the same mapping to 20+ scenes every time we change venue. From what you say I'm deducing there must be a way of not having to manually copy the mapping to every scene.

[DusX]

@msanii

The easiest solution to this is to put your Projector actors inside a User Actor.
Then if you edit the Projection mapping, and close the User Actor (selecting update all).
All instances of that actor will be updated with your new mapping.
So, if you use the same User Actor in each scene.. it will update for your entire project.

[msanii]

@dusx

Thanks for this. Will save us 40 mins every time and less anxiety over someone touching the screens or projector

[Woland]

@msanii said:

Slightly different question but I'm often having to manually copy the same mapping to 20+ scenes every time we change venue. From what you say I'm deducing there must be a way of not having to manually copy the mapping to every scene.

There's also this, which makes it so that you only have one Projector actor per Stage: https://community.troikatronix.com/topic/5495/global-projection-mapping-simple-show-template

[msanii]

@woland

Thanks a lot for this. The patch is crashing Isadora at start-up but then I'm on Mojave. I'll have to wait for 3

[Woland]

@msanii said:

I'll have to wait for 3

 Soon my friend, soon.

[Bennnid]

@woland thanks a lot i didn't know you can edit mapping through a text file, do u have any tutorial for exporting and loading? bests

[Woland]

@bennnid said:

do u have any tutorial for exporting and loading?

Unfortunately I do not. I don't feel comfortable sharing more than just pointing you in the direction of Data Array and published IzzyMap Inputs. With Isadora the only limitation is that you can't save, so "getting around" the Demo Mode limitation by editing an external file in order to "save" in Demo Mode is a little bit a of a grey area since if one wants to be able to save one should technically buy a license for the show computer. Silly of me to have brought it up in the first place then I suppose...

[DusX]

I use this feature to allow me to ship self contained 'products', that simply require the demo version as the playback engine.
Being able to adjust some settings depending on the venue, or to be able to adjust fine calibration setting during install are the main reasons I have found to incorporate this approach.
It can take some time, and planning, but in the end you can create some very flexible systems.
This tutorial is a good starting point: https://support.troikatronix.c...